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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The FCP X Problem; University level

As of 2:43 PM this afternoon, little more than 15 minutes ago, Final Cut Pro is no longer a problem for me.
 
Ben Holmes said:
His issue was volume licensing. This has been solved.
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No, actually, according to Apple, it WILL be solved SOON.
I'm intrigued to know whether Apple agree with your idea of buying one copy and letting 5 people use it.
If, as I suspect, they are only happy for ONE person to use it, on up to 5 computers, then that is no solution.
 
David Rasberry said:
BBC converted over 2000 seats from FCP to Adobe CS5 last fall. This was around the time that news stories about Apple gutting the FCP development team appeared. If its "pro" enough for BBC prime time I'd say it is a good alternative, especially since keyboard functions can be mapped to match FCP anyway. Shortens the learning curve.
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That's very interesting David.
I read all the stories 5 years ago about how 'apparently' the BBC was replacing lots of Avid systems with FCP.
The truth turned out to be a lot more complicated.
Any chance you could provide a source for that?
Thanks
Nigel
 
paulherrin said:
read the article i just posted. your safest bet is to suck it up and switch to adobe or avid. those are basically guaranteed professional tools, and skillsets that will lend themselves well. someone mentioned avid was about 300-400 for students with free upgrades for 4 years. if you can edit on avid, you can edit on any system.

don't sit around twiddling your thumbs right now looking foolish. yes it's going to take some effort (news flash).. learn the other software quickly and teach it. if you commit to that, it will be smooth sailing. pardon my judgement, but it sounds like you haven't used adobe or avid in awhile because you're talking about anonymous 'workflow issues' that don't exist. but you did mention there's a lot of 'fud' as well, so i'm sure you can figure that out. there's a lesson about eggs and baskets somewhere around here, but seriously, best of luck.

just in case you're still on the fence...http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/ (super helpful in clearing everything up)
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Well, it's easy to say "suck it up and switch" when you are an individual editor, but IMO learning a new software package well enough in a few weeks time to actually teach it effectively to 50+ students is a different matter. I've switched editing systems more than a few times in my career, but even though "editing is editing" and the tools are all similar, the individual differences in terminology and "operational logic" take some time to understand and master. And frankly, both AVID and Adobe have had their share of bad decisions and poor product launches over the years (remember when AVID abandoned the Mac entirely? Or how about buggy 'ol Adobe CS4?). I don't believe they offer a perfect solution anymore than Apple does. While I haven't used either MC 5 or PP5.5 very much, I am fairly familiar with them. As far as the workflow issues I mentioned, how about this one...much as I love After Effects, it's not where I want to do my color correcting.
 
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If on the day Apple released FCPX they had given everyone a heads up that FCP7 would be EOL'd in one year that would be one thing. Pros could wait for specific issues to be addressed by Apple or 3rd parties before migrating.

If FCPX was not such a radical departure from FCP7, good or ill, that would be another thing. Product evolution usually involves some hassle.

Instead, Apple chose a path that tells me they consider the Professional market more trouble than its worth.

Perhaps expecting the same company to make cool, easy to use gadgets AND powerful, intuitive, professional tools was too much to ask.

Cheers - #19
 
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/

So this tells me that R3D's will not be supported by Apple FCPX and PRORES is there only choice for us.

Bloody Arri's PRO RES Gamble is really paying off for them big time now. Rentals are mostly Alexa, everyone is working in PRORES everywhere...

If you cant beat them join em.

What a great pity. Looks like VHS just beat BETACAM again.
 
Nice one!
It is an Adobe press release, rather than from the horse's mouth....
...but so was the Apple news years back.
This will be of interest to a colleague in my university who is considering moving to Premiere.
Thanks David.
 
Mark Toia said:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/

So this tells me that R3D's will not be supported by Apple FCPX and PRORES is there only choice for us.

Bloody Arri's PRO RES Gamble is really paying off for them big time now. Rentals are mostly Alexa, everyone is working in PRORES everywhere...

If you cant beat them join em.

What a great pity. Looks like VHS just beat BETACAM again.
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R3D is only one of many RAW formats to come. Arri's got their own RAW format and many others even including Canon and their DSLR video format are researching RAW technology.
It might be much ProRes right now, but I agree with Jim that everyone is going toward a RAW workflow and when that is more common then ProRes, it will be a must to be able to edit it native.
Interesting how FCP gets more closed off and Avid which has been criticized for being too close opens up more and more with each new release. ProRes also works flawlessly on Avid AMA, even 4444 from the Alexa runs great on a lesser system.
 
Guys, no double posting please :)
 
FCP X opens the door, from a technical perspective, for native support of non-QuickTime media. R3D will show up sooner or later. It's clear that Apple did their 'ship as soon as possible even if it means the first version is missing really important features' thing here, so they've got a bunch of things on their list first, like XML exporting and audio track management.

Frankly, though, I've never quite understood the obsession with native R3D support in NLE environments. I mean, I can think of a few use cases. But most creative editors don't have a RedRocket, and R3D is still a very 'heavy' format without one. It's just not something creative editorial wants to or should have to deal with. Sure, a few more years of hardware improvements, to the point where your average editor's system can do a 'half good' decode in real time, and there won't be any reason not to edit native footage all the time. But right now? It's not, in my opinion, really the most useful capability.
 
Chris Kenny said:
It's clear that Apple did their 'ship as soon as possible even if it means the first version is missing really important features' thing here
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How is this clear? It might just be their strategy to not focus on those features, you do not know that for sure and any assumption that this is true need to be backed up with some facts.
You are messing with someones decision and who needs answers. There are no real hard facts of how things are gonna happen, don't throw out assumptions as facts because he needs help on a decision that could cost a lot of money.


Chris Kenny said:
Frankly, though, I've never quite understood the obsession with native R3D support in NLE environments. I mean, I can think of a few use cases. But most creative editors don't have a RedRocket, and R3D is still a very 'heavy' format without one. It's just not something creative editorial wants to or should have to deal with. Sure, a few more years of hardware improvements, to the point where your average editor's system can do a 'half good' decode in real time, and there won't be any reason not to edit native footage all the time. But right now? It's not, in my opinion, really the most useful capability.
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Who are these "creative editors" and what type of editorial work do they do?
 
Chris Kenny said:
Frankly, though, I've never quite understood the obsession with native R3D support in NLE environments. I mean, I can think of a few use cases. But most creative editors don't have a RedRocket, and R3D is still a very 'heavy' format without one. It's just not something creative editorial wants to or should have to deal with. Sure, a few more years of hardware improvements, to the point where your average editor's system can do a 'half good' decode in real time, and there won't be any reason not to edit native footage all the time. But right now? It's not, in my opinion, really the most useful capability.
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Hi Chris,

don't want to sound disrespectful but at home I have a $1.200 computer rig (i7 2600+ OC4.2ghz, 16gb 1600mhz, GTX570 with win7 64bit) and I can play realtime 5k HDRx full debayer on a 2k timeline (which is more than enough for editorial purposes, IMO) with a few effects applied and without even rendering (no background rendering no nothing) on PPro cs5.5. Which I believe it's a cheap rig, compared to even an new iMac.

At Q4 this year (hopefully) Intel will release their new processors, which will make the ones that are available now seems 'really slow'. Just search some comparisons over the internet for the 2600k and the top Xeons, there are a few bench marks that the 2600k wins easily, even with a two xeon. If you think it's quite powerful that a $320 processor wins over a dual $900 (each) processor. Of course there are a few of benchmarks that the dual xeon still wins, but the point is that the new 'cheap' version of Intel's Sandy Bridge are extremely powerful, just imagine when it hits the top lines.

Back to topic, my point is just that realtime R3D editing, even without a red rocked, is available now and it's cheap.
 
Fabricio Morato said:
Hi Chris,

don't want to sound disrespectful but at home I have a $1.200 computer rig (i7 2600+ OC4.2ghz, 16gb 1600mhz, GTX570 with win7 64bit) and I can play realtime 5k HDRx full debayer on a 2k timeline (which is more than enough for editorial purposes, IMO) with a few effects applied and without even rendering (no background rendering no nothing) on PPro cs5.5. Which I believe it's a cheap rig, compared to even an new iMac.
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I'm describing what I'm seeing, mostly in the indie feature world. If we handed R3D files to most of the editors on projects we're involved with, they'd hand them right back. A lot of editors are pretty conservative with what software they use, and aren't using hardware built this year.

Christoffer Glans said:
How is this clear? It might just be their strategy to not focus on those features, you do not know that for sure and any assumption that this is true need to be backed up with some facts.
Click to expand...

The facts are these: Apple has a consistent pattern of handling initial releases like this, and Apple has been telling various parties since at least the day of the release (prior to that, in the case of XML, according to Philip Hodgetts) that these additional features were being worked on.

Frankly, you're not really advancing an argument at this point, you're just being argumentative, which is not really the same thing.
 
Log and transfer to prores, or proxies is just a waste of time. People have edited feature films end to end in CS5 using R3d files native in the timeline and rendering once to final output format at finish. That is efficient.
Having a collaborative multi-station workflow where everything is referenced seamlessly back to the original footage without the need to render or transcode at all is where NLE's and finishing systems need to be.
Maybe FCPX will get there eventually.
 
David Rasberry said:
Maybe FCPX will get there eventually.
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Personally and I think a few others agree, there's a little too many maybe's for FCPX in my taste.
Premiere and Avid is doing things right now, why have wish when you can do it right now?
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Can somebody explain to me why Apple couldn't have kept selling and supporting FCP7 for one year after the (quasi-beta) release of FCPX?

Is that really too much to ask?

Cheers - #19
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+1, easy solution and possible way out of this crisis.

Noah
 
THIS!

Thanks for sharing your same concern, Tom.

I read on Macrumors site that apparently NYU Tisch is ditching Final Cut Pro, and telling its students to NOT buy FCPX (as it won't be supported).

I'm amazed at how fast this is changing. At least I know I'm not alone as I try to wade through this quagmire that Apple unleashed on us.

Dillon

Tom Greenberg said:
This is a major issue for those of us in the educational community, as Dillon pointed out. I teach editing and post-production at Compass College of Cinematic Arts. Ours is a highly-accelerated, very hands-on program...students earn a 60 credit hour Associates degree in 12 months. Students begin shooting and editing almost from day one, and by the end of their studies here, have edited dozens of pieces including 15-20 minute short films.

As a long-time FCP editor, I am painfully aware of how inadequate the initial release of FCP X is in regards to professional workflows, along with third party hardware and plug-in support. However, as an educator, I have to grapple with the reality of incoming students who have little or no editing background/skills, shooting mostly on HDSLR cameras, and work in a closed-loop environment on laptops. The decision what to teach these students for the fall term (which starts in 8 weeks) is not a simple one. Do we continue to teach FCP 7, Color, etc. as we have been because this is what students are most likely to encounter in professional environments once they leave school? Do we teach FCP X because it is well suited for individuals working in a closed-loop on HDSLRs, is at the beginning of its life and will undoubtably develop into a credible editing solution given enough time? Do we switch to AVID or Adobe CS5...both of which have workflow issues of their own? No clear answer presents itself...

Additionally, our students purchase their own software, so that they own it and can begin using it in their careers when the graduate from Compass. This creates a real immediate problem...do we tell them to purchase FCP X, knowing its limitations, and with all the industry negativity? What if we decide to stick with FCP 7...well, they can't even buy it anymore from Apple. Or tell them that they need to buy AVID, or PPro CS5.5? Needless to say, for the last week, I have been receiving large numbers of emails from incoming students - "what are we supposed to buy?". And of course, switching to AVID or CS5.5 PPro means that we have to create new curriculum/lesson plans for large chunks of our post-production classes....and do it in the next 8 weeks.

Since the FCP X launch, I have been reading every review, blog, and article that I can find in hopes of getting some clarity on this issue before I make a decision that will force our incoming students down one of these paths. I want to make the right choice for them (both for today and for their career path) and for our institution. Frankly there is a lot of FUD, misinformation, and general murkiness surrounding this issue that make this a very difficult decision.
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Ben,

In my original post, I stated that we have an annual license agreement with apple, which allows us access to any and all upgrades related to FCS. My education rep at Apple didn't know what to tell me last week regarding our licensing program with Apple, and he still doesn't know today.

Also, since we're an education institution, and because volume licenses are a different animal, we have a different set of rules to follow regarding "buying once and installing across multiple machines". The rep at Apple told us we couldn't do this, it would be a violation of our contract with Apple.

At least I've got about a month to chart out a new course for our University and tell them what my decision would be and hope they ratify it (by committee).

If Apple had just been open and honest with us about what was coming with regards to FC X, and what will be coming, much of this hallaboo would be a moot point.


Ben Holmes said:
Oh snap:

Can I purchase a volume license?
Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5, and Compressor 4 Commercial and Education Volume Licensing will be available soon via the Apple Online Store for quantities of 20 or more. After purchasing, customers will receive redemption codes they can use to download the applications from the Mac App Store.

From the just posted FAQs.
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