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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Fan 2.0 noise "motor"

Christoffer Glans said:
Would be nice if someone from Red could comment on all of these comments. There's a real issue here and the solution is not to get weapon when we just want a quieter front fan.
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I don't know if a "3.0 fan" is on the horizon, but I'm not experiencing any particular hell with fans on Epic Dragon. Heck, other cameras are louder now. If you're doing macro face work and need the mic next to talent I'd blimp the fan with some cubed foam or something. I used a small piece of acrylic once when doing something similar and it made a difference.

But generally:


Daniel Reed said:
...generally under 30db is consider quiet and every 3 db is double the sound intensity level.
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And a mic at 3 feet:

Phil Holland said:
** I personally have been running at the default Adaptive 65° with the new fans lately. Initially I started at 70°, but I have switched as testing with standard shotgun microphones and recorders has produced decent results at that dB range. Know that you can squeak out a bit more of a quiet camera if necessary running at 70° though.

Default Adaptive 65° at notable lengths:
- 1 Foot = 40-46dB
- 3 Feet = 31dB
- 5 Feet = 30dB
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Phil, i'm not talking about macro shots here hehe :beer:


And I'm not talking about fan noise in general; there is a clear defect or design oversight w/ the current shipping Delta PFB0412EHN Fans used by RED

Try picking up a new 2.0 fan from RED and swap it with the one you got when they were first issued.
If I recall correctly, you made an audio recording back then... and it definitely did not have any electric whine/hum/pulse issues.

Phil if you pm me, I can even give you the tracking and support case number for the 2.0 fan I just sent back to RED today.


When the fans operate as expected they're great and I love em.
I've never heard this whine from a functional fan anywhere before until 2 months ago.
(and believe me, I have more experience with fans and server rooms & data centers then I care to admit).

I'm inclined to think the problem is a change made by Delta or a variance introduced over the production run of the Delta PFB0412EHN
Remember, the fan was designed in 2008 and is assembled at any one of three different factories (there may be more).
You know how sometimes a part made at one plant in one country doesn't stack up as well as the same part made elsewhere,
think china vs Thailand, or Mexico vs Malaysia ... i suspect this may be exactly what some are experiencing here.

OR perhaps a resister was changed, or they may even be wired wrong inside...
Hell, I once bought a new NES Advantage where the circuit board was upside down!
I took it apart, carefully rotated the PCB, and then enjoyed gaming many summers with it.
These things happen... RED isn't in the fan motor business heh :coolgleamA:



Problems:


A) Electric whine/hum/pulse from Delta motor (remove grill to ensure you're not hearing vibration buzz)

Possible Solutions & Work-Arounds:
  1. Contact Red Support
  2. Try using a another fan of same part number, maybe even from a different plant (China, Thailand, or ROC Thailand)
  3. Use the 1.0 fan
  4. Buy a different 12V DC 40x28mm 4-wire PWM fan rated between .35 to .72 Amps (Top Motor, EverCool, Sycthe)


B) Buzz/Rattle from fan positioning

Possible Solutions & Work-Arounds:
  1. Try reseating the fan
  2. Contact Red Support
  3. Try a different front grill
  4. Wrap the front side of the fan (where the gasket ends) with a single thin strip of gaffers tape to ensure a snug fit (this worked for me)




I definitely have heard some Epic Dragons NOT make this electric whine/hum/pulse at lowest RPMs while others DO make the motor electric whine/hum/pulse and it is quite audible and picks up in recordings 12 ft away w/in a boomed circle of silence while in "quiet" mode.

The whine/pulse can be blocked/mitgated/deflected away from talent by use of a big mattebox

Besides the motor whine, there is a problem with the grill/gasket design.
There is a small gap between the sides along the front of the 40x28 fan and the grill.
Depending on gravity/luck the fan can vibrate against it and make buzzing sounds.

The 1.0 fan was fully enclosed by the grommet/gasket and this vibration buzz was not possible.
a thin strip of gaffer's tape around the side of the 2.0 fan solved this problem for me.


Food for thought; any input, thought and/or investigation is much appreciated!

Cheers :cheers2:


Phil Holland said:
I'm not experiencing any particular hell with fans on Epic Dragon. Heck, other cameras are louder now. If you're doing macro face work and need the mic next to talent I'd blimp the fan with some cubed foam or something. I used a small piece of acrylic once when doing something similar and it made a difference.

But generally:





And a mic at 3 feet:
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Inbound Quality Control
Boring topic, but critical to a modern manufacturing business. Trust your vendors - but verify every batch of components . . . before they hit the factory floor.
 
Actually found out that I actually own the v1 front fan. Is there nay problems with keeping the top v2.0 fan and switching to the v1.0 front fan? What's the difference between the old front fan and the new?
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Actually found out that I actually own the v1 front fan. Is there nay problems with keeping the top v2.0 fan and switching to the v1.0 front fan? What's the difference between the old front fan and the new?
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No you can swap them around if wanted. Some like new some like old and some like to complain... Both worked well for us in combo with the top fan. but we have been swapping back and forth when using BNC-R mount on the dragon as that mount is so big the new grill is getting in the way, so on those occasions we used old front fan and I noted that the camera was a bit more quiet but as we hardly ever record sound I did not care much about it.

Edit: think I have a V1 front fan and grill at the office in anyone is interested to pick it up, give me an offer.
 
Björn Benckert said:
No you can swap them around if wanted. Some like new some like old and some like to complain... Both worked well for us in combo with the top fan. but we have been swapping back and forth when using BNC-R mount on the dragon as that mount is so big the new grill is getting in the way, so on those occasions we used old front fan and I noted that the camera was a bit more quiet but as we hardly ever record sound I did not care much about it.

Edit: think I have a V1 front fan and grill at the office in anyone is interested to pick it up, give me an offer.
Click to expand...

So there's no risk of damage by using the v1.0 front fan? I mean, the Dragon came with the fan 2.0 so I'm thinking the v1.0 isn't meant to work with the heat generated by the Dragon sensor tech?
 
Christoffer Glans said:
So there's no risk of damage by using the v1.0 front fan? I mean, the Dragon came with the fan 2.0 so I'm thinking the v1.0 isn't meant to work with the heat generated by the Dragon sensor tech?
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No there is no problem. The Fan V2 has only a better performance as V1 when you turn your fans higher than 80% wich is rarely the case (should never happen with the new firmware Adaptive mode) I allways use front fan V1 as it has better noise performance in conjunction with the FanPlate since Dragon day 1, and never had any trouble.

Pat

PS: make sure that you make an hardware rediscover in the Maintenance menu, if you install another fan.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
So there's no risk of damage by using the v1.0 front fan? I mean, the Dragon came with the fan 2.0 so I'm thinking the v1.0 isn't meant to work with the heat generated by the Dragon sensor tech?
Click to expand...


Camera has internal heat sensors... even if the fan does not spinn at all the camera should shut down before it melts, so no should not be a problem. Or has not been when we tried.
 
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