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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Fan 2.0 noise "motor"

Christoffer Glans

Christoffer Glans

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I'm wondering why the front fan of the 2.0 upgraded fans have such a distinct motor noise? The top fan is very silent, but even when I use adaptive quiet record as my fan setting the there's still this "humming" sound that the motor of the front fan give off. Without that "hum" it would be almost completely silent. Isn't there a better way to improve on that motor so that it doesn't sound like this?

Recorded this very close to the fan just to show what kind of "hum" that I mean. Starts of in preview mode and then I push record while going in closer to the fan with the mic. In the end I put the mic to the top fan instead just to show the difference in motor sounds (you hear the front fan in the background at that point).

Test fan noise
 
It is what it is. Red say in dB it's quieter overall compared to front fan 1.0, and pushes more air at the same speed. Unfortunately the audio frequency spectrum is different, and rather more audible!

That's why some people opted to keep front fan 1.0 with top fan 2.0.

Depends on the type of work and typical ambient temperatures where you are, whether the greater airflow is preferable over the more audible noise.
 
So why not just release a new front fan? Why not improve the motor to be more silent? As I see (hear) it, it's the motor that's the problem on the front fan. It should be a no brainer to create a fan that's as quiet as the top fan.
 
Is it like that on all Dragons? Did you have a chance to compare it to other cameras in your area?
 
Christoffer Glans said:
So why not just release a new front fan? Why not improve the motor to be more silent? As I see (hear) it, it's the motor that's the problem on the front fan. It should be a no brainer to create a fan that's as quiet as the top fan.
Click to expand...

Maybe because it's a non-trivial design problem? Or just buy a secondhand front fan 1.0 which is kind of what you are asking for. Less airflow, but quieter.
 
I've done some extensive tests about all fan configurations possible on the Epic (Mx and Dragon).
The best configuration is front fan V1 and top Fan or even better than the top fan : the FanPlate.

Here the comparative test.

https://vimeo.com/75245337

Pat
 
ericyoung said:
Maybe because it's a non-trivial design problem? Or just buy a secondhand front fan 1.0 which is kind of what you are asking for. Less airflow, but quieter.
Click to expand...

Weren't the original fans sent back with the upgrade? I remember a small plastic bag with soem stuff in it when I got mine back - just can't remember if it was both (top and front).
 
I think they kept V1.

We bought V2 and then sent the camera in for the upgrade with the V2 installed. Then after the upgrade we swapped the fan to V1. Every time we send the camera in we send it with the V2 installed.

Pat
 
Andy White said:
Weren't the original fans sent back with the upgrade? I remember a small plastic bag with soem stuff in it when I got mine back - just can't remember if it was both (top and front).
Click to expand...

Yep, they swapped front fans to V2 with upgrades.

So, either do what Patrick did, or buy one secondhand!
 
Isn't there a risk of overheating if you combine different fans? Aren't they controlled differently?

I do however not understand why this isn't an issue that Red could easily engineer around. Just replace the motor, use something else to drive the fan. I guess that with Weapon they will not do any new stuff for the Epic Dragon so this has to be a DIY project :001_unsure:
 
Hello Christoffer,

Christoffer Glans said:
Isn't there a risk of overheating if you combine different fans? Aren't they controlled differently?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The FanPlate takes the load from the front fan, as it's a bigger 50mm fan it can spin slowlier for the same amount of heat suction and is there fore less noisy. This means that the camera will regulate the front fan to get the camera to the target heat, so you still use the camera body's capability to regulate the air flow.

You can leave the FanPlate setting to the same level the whole day (less than half speed) if the outdoor temp is not increasing. The fan is electronically regulated to recieve 12V and won't vary when V-lock battery is going from 15v to 12.5v. So you'll have allways the same fan performance with the same sound print. The big plus is also that you don't have to cool the camera between takes and the sound ingeneer can have the same audio conditions in rehearsal as in shooting mode.


for the Epic Dragon so this has to be a DIY project :001_unsure:
Click to expand...

The DIY project has been done before RED put their fan V2 to the market and it's still the most efficient solution out there! ;-)


See you.

Patrick
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Isn't there a risk of overheating if you combine different fans? Aren't they controlled differently?

I do however not understand why this isn't an issue that Red could easily engineer around. Just replace the motor, use something else to drive the fan. I guess that with Weapon they will not do any new stuff for the Epic Dragon so this has to be a DIY project :001_unsure:
Click to expand...

No, camera firmware seems to cope fine. Fan noise isn't just a motor. It's everything around the air being moved. The enclosure, the fan blade design, the materials used, the bearings, the lubricant, the cost. It's not a trivial design problem, otherwise every fan would be designed to be silent!
 
ericyoung said:
No, camera firmware seems to cope fine. Fan noise isn't just a motor. It's everything around the air being moved. The enclosure, the fan blade design, the materials used, the bearings, the lubricant, the cost. It's not a trivial design problem, otherwise every fan would be designed to be silent!
Click to expand...

As I see it or rather hear it it's not the air moving or the blades, it's the "hum" sound that the motor is giving away. I remember when I was a kid and interested in electronic devices I stripped things apart and removed small motors to build other things. I came across a lot of different motors and some sounded just like that. It's the electronics in the front fan that give it away, not the enclosure, materials or fan design, it's the actual motor. If another type of motor were used it should not give away that hum. The sound of the actual air flow that the top fan gives away is not a problem at all, the same goes for the front fan.

I still feel there need to be an improvement to the front fan and I think Red should do a front fan 3.0. It would be a shame if Epic Dragon hardware is abandoned so that any improvements to this body has ceased in order to only focus on Weapon.
 
Christoffer you'r right.

The fan mechanics is really important if you want to have the best combo : efficiency -> noise

I've tested more than 10 solutions out there and have found that Acoustifan being the best soulution for our FanPlate.

Strange that this comes up after Epic is allready rolling for 4 years! I only wonder why people don't adopt the FanPlate and still are hoping for a new solution or struggling for their fan settings!

Pat
 
Patrick Tresch said:
I've tested more than 10 solutions out there and have found that Acoustifan being the best soulution for our FanPlate.
Click to expand...

So you've replaced the original fan with the Acoustifan and using it with Top Plate V2?
 
I got a solution for you Christoffer.

Send your dragon to me this thursday and I return it next tuesday with the V1 front fan installed, nice and quite and your V2 front fan in a little bag on the side. I will even take it out and make sure it runs quite and smoothly in a real shooting production environment during two of those days. :)
 
Has anyone tried using a different fan altogether?


If I recall right, the front 2.0 fan is a Delta 40mm x 28mm High Speed PWM 4-wire 15Krpm Fan.
My buddy Google showed me several different make/models in the same form factor...

Also if I read charts correctly, the model RED uses is rated at 56~db
AND there are a several fans rated lower then that (quieter)


...the parts I am unsure about are the connector type (mini-molex/etc) and the votage (amps).



I ran into an issue w/ one 2.0 fan being "buzzier" then others and replaced it via RED support.
(hence my hopefully helpful inquiry).
 
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