Steadicam differences...???

[Steve Das]

Anyone know differences if any between these versions of the
Steadicam Flyer ?...since it goes up to 19lbs. seems like a best match
for Epic/Scarlet cameras.

FNVLB
F12VLBH
LE

 

[Gustavo Penna]

all digital cameras weight more than the film ones mostly because you always have to add all kinds of electronic stuff. + lens Wireless motors etc.

and now with alexa is important to have a steadicam that can also suply 24 Volts just like the big boys do.

Best Luck in your search.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

I'd say wait about 1 more week and get the new Zephyr. I'd also say Steadicam is a long journey in terms of learning. Take a workshop, practice practice practice.

It is simply not true that digital cameras weight more than film cameras. This is simply misinformation. More than a Bolex? Yes. More than a 35 cam? No way.

You can fly a Red on a Flyer - we have done this very successfully - but you have more configuration options with Zephyr (26 pound limit). It's very easy to get a Red down to that weight.

I would avoid 'off-brands" like Glidecam. Their arms and gymbals are of inferior quality, and they take way longer to balance. Also, clients like to see the real Steadicam logo on your gear, and will not be understanding if you are slower than the last guy/girl they worked with because you tried to save a few bucks and bought some weird set-up on ebay.

An exception, I hear, but cannot confirm, is Action Cam - but it does not cost less and some clients will mistake it for an "ebay special".

 

[Adam Eden]

I suggest you look at the Steadicam Archer 2 series with the G50 arm. I have one of these and they are great entry point to Steadicam. I fly a 5d/7d, Sony PDW-F800 and now RED. They have a great arm and gymble. You will need to add weight to fly the 5D/7D but everything else is great.

I spent a lot of time looking at the Steadicam Flyer and for the extra money the Archer 2 leaves it for dead.

The main thing I like about the G50 arm is that you can adjust the arm whilst you are wearing the rig. With the Flyer you can only adjust the weight of the arm and not the side to side movement or "Ride"

 

[Gustavo Penna]

bolex What?

bolex What?

It is simply not true that digital cameras weight more than film cameras. This is simply misinformation. More than a Bolex? Yes. More than a 35 cam? No way.end

Rob. Are you comparing Bolex & RED? or a point & shoot with a Bolex? i just hope you know what you are talking about.

Yes, the digital cameras weight more than the film ones.

Remember one thing the cameras might be digital. but they generally use at least on every single one of my jobs. the same heavy lens and accessories that the films cameras use. in my case, My lens. Zeiss vari-primes and or cooke S4's Plus. Downconverters, to transmit the signal in SD, pluss 1 or 2 LCD's, I have the transvideo HD (WHICH ISNT LIGHTWEIGHT).with my RED set up, i also happen to own an Arri 435 Extreme. (thats a 35MM CAMERA, not a Bolex) a RED one and a Sony F900 Cinealta. and i bet you what ever you want to lose.
that the RED & the cinealta are heavier than the Arri. not only their bodies but the whole package once is all ready to shoot. and trust me i strip the red one from all the useless stuff that it can have.
and i'm not even talking about other digital cameras that i usually shoot with, like the Sony F23, Sony F35, or Panavision Genesis. those are Heavy pigs.

Rob, i'm giving an honest testimony. if you want to tell Steve and everyone on this forum, that he can perform professionally with (what ever rig) that can hold a 19 lb camera on a professional set with professional lens and all the toys. you are simply out of touch with that kind of Real professional environment.

Good luck.
By the way...... check this bolex i'm Flying on this video! 20 years doing it and i'm still learning. "even from you.... rob ruffo"

http://vimeo.com/5056547

 

[Gustavo Penna]

By the way.
I have my Back up steadicam for sale now.

it will fly ANY camera that you throw at it. i've shot Amazing stuff with it and i'm sure you would make the money back in 10 to 15 jobs.
there wont be any jobs that you wont be able to take. Why? because this is a Professional Steadicam. i paid 64,000 when i got it brand new in 2.000
and now it can be yours.

check it out here.

http://web.me.com/cineman/Site_5


For info, please email me direct to: cineman@me.com SCO (Serious Customers ONLY)

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Rob you must be a little behind either in stabilizer brands or just only like tiffen
For what is worth , the best rig is a combination of pieces and personal taste and no it doesnt take longer to balance if you go that route.
Actioncam is my favorite rig not because it flyes and performs great, but because it has one of the smoothest arms out there, and its designed in a great original way.
steadicam people moan in what they call copies but when a rig comes out and its original designed and build, then they say oh it looks like an ebay knock out?
I dont think so.
And there is a big gap in between the zephir and actioncam, actioncam delivers way more advantages over the zephir and is a way more advanced rig with a wider range of camera weight and so many other add ons.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Rob. Are you comparing Bolex & RED? or a point & shoot with a Bolex? i just hope you know what you are talking about.

Yes, the digital cameras weight more than the film ones.

Remember one thing the cameras might be digital. but they generally use at least on every single one of my jobs. the same heavy lens and accessories that the films cameras use. in my case, My lens. Zeiss vari-primes and or cooke S4's Plus. Downconverters, to transmit the signal in SD, pluss 1 or 2 LCD's, I have the transvideo HD (WHICH ISNT LIGHTWEIGHT).with my RED set up, i also happen to own an Arri 435 Extreme. (thats a 35MM CAMERA, not a Bolex) a RED one and a Sony F900 Cinealta. and i bet you what ever you want to lose.
that the RED & the cinealta are heavier than the Arri. not only their bodies but the whole package once is all ready to shoot. and trust me i strip the red one from all the useless stuff that it can have.
and i'm not even talking about other digital cameras that i usually shoot with, like the Sony F23, Sony F35, or Panavision Genesis. those are Heavy pigs.

Rob, i'm giving an honest testimony. if you want to tell Steve and everyone on this forum, that he can perform professionally with (what ever rig) that can hold a 19 lb camera on a professional set with professional lens and all the toys. you are simply out of touch with that kind of Real professional environment.

Good luck.
By the way...... check this bolex i'm Flying on this video! 20 years doing it and i'm still learning. "even from you.... rob ruffo"

http://vimeo.com/5056547

I never implied you were using a Bolex - only that digital cameras need not weight more. Indeed I am younger than you with less experience- 20 years ago I was still in short pants. I suppose that makes my comments irrelevant compared to yours, but nonetheless...

I don't know what you mean by professional environment. We have shot footage for national broadcast content using a Red and a Flyer. It worked. It looked great.

Montreal is not L.A. We always try to find inexpensive ways of doing things that still give great results. Not DVXuser-style "tricks" that degrade standards, but by simply removing from the equation anything that does not affect pic quality.

Using Birger mount Canon L primes - we succeeded with Flyer LE.

Using PL lenses + follow-focus, we used a rented Archer, but taking note of weights, they remained below 26 pounds, which Zephyr covers.

The F35 is rarely seen anymore, now that MX is out. That indeed weighed a ton. ENG cameras more than 26 pounds do not seem to be in use here in Montreal - at least I don't know those people. Most with lens weight in at about 22 or so or less - which the Zephyr covers.

I'm sorry but, in my personal opinion, a Transvideo is a poor choice for Steadicam. You have two options; slightly better video quality on what is, after all, just a framing monitor, or being able to fly much longer even when it's a high heat working environment. I think most projects would rather get more shots per day and "endure" a framing LCD with inferior color performance than vice-versa.

That's the rub with a heavier rig - you can't fly them for hours on end without a break. A Zephyr, yes.

A Decimator weights a few ounces and runs off D-tap or even DSLR batteries. Soon, HDMI very light video transmitters will hit the market.

Follow-focus motors have gotten smaller and better.

The rest, the way things are done here, you just don't need.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Rob you must be a little behind either in stabilizer brands or just only like tiffen
For what is worth , the best rig is a combination of pieces and personal taste and no it doesnt take longer to balance if you go that route.
Actioncam is my favorite rig not because it flyes and performs great, but because it has one of the smoothest arms out there, and its designed in a great original way.
steadicam people moan in what they call copies but when a rig comes out and its original designed and build, then they say oh it looks like an ebay knock out?
I dont think so.
And there is a big gap in between the zephir and actioncam, actioncam delivers way more advantages over the zephir and is a way more advanced rig with a wider range of camera weight and so many other add ons.

This is why I said "with the exception of Action Cam". Notwithstanding clients are not always savvy. Ad agency art directors are reassured by the brand "Steadicam". Maybe action Cam is way better (I've been told it is better) but the reaction of clients is still something.

That said, we've been looking into Action Cam. It's very expensive though.

Glidecam I have tried and do not like.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Also you are wrong about edurance that you get more with a Zephyr, sometimes heavier rigs (higher end) arent that much more heavy BUT there are Wayyyy more confortable with better ergonomics that allow the operator to fly longer times.
Back mounted vests, e.t.c. which by the way Action products do very well.
Best

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

HOW COME IS SOOO EXPENSIVE.
You can get a red package around 14000 I believe, BUT look what you are getting , look at this arm and its range, the 2 inch post, I mean man this is way far than a Zephyr.
Dont get me wrong here Zephyr is good, but hw much are you getting it over there?

Edit: this client game demanting the firm STEADICAM on your rig has to stop. Look at most of the top ops in the world.
D o the use a complete STEADICAM rig? In most cases they only use the new D70 arms all the rest is XCS , MK-V, PRO, what is the meaning of this? Anyhow for these clients just stick a sticker on your arm saying steadicam ha ha ha they will never tell ..
sorry its just outrageous to work like this.

 

[Gustavo Penna]

You just proved my mom right.....Again!
She always has said.
Ignorant homo-sapiens Always learn.
Stubborn people. Never does.

stub·born/ˈstəbərn/Adjective
1. Having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something,


And she was education minister on 3 governments.

Good luck!

 

[Mark Collins]

The main thing I like about the G50 arm is that you can adjust the arm whilst you are wearing the rig. With the Flyer you can only adjust the weight of the arm and not the side to side movement or "Ride"

You can adjust it, it's just a pain in the ass to do. All you need is to take the weight of the adjustment screws enough to allow you to change them.

 

[Gustavo Penna]

HOW COME IS SOOO EXPENSIVE.
You can get a red package around 14000 I believe, BUT look what you are getting , look at this arm and its range, the 2 inch post, I mean man this is way far than a Zephyr.
Dont get me wrong here Zephyr is good, but hw much are you getting it over there?

Edit: this client game demanting the firm STEADICAM on your rig has to stop. Look at most of the top ops in the world.
D o the use a complete STEADICAM rig? In most cases they only use the new D70 arms all the rest is XCS , MK-V, PRO, what is the meaning of this? Anyhow for these clients just stick a sticker on your arm saying steadicam ha ha ha they will never tell ..
sorry its just outrageous to work like this.

BORIS walks in to a Mercedes Benz dealer and says how much is this M class this M550 suv?
the salesman responds, they start at $57.590.
BORIS Replies, how come I'TS SOOOOO EXPENSIVE!
I can get a KIA sorento for 20.995

BORIS adds,
the KIA has "ABSOLUTELY THE SAME" Four wheels equipment and options as the MERCEDES.

the sales man just gives him a hand shake and moves to A CUSTOMER. (maybe....maybe.... the sales man will give Boris a business card but its unlikely, actually Boris will NEVER ever get a call from the sales man)

in this case, as in ALL.

You GET what YOU PAY.
and it goes just the same way with the (REAL, BIG or SERIOUS) producers.

(which in this case is not only the Metal with four rubber tires) But The peace of mind that the Individual ( NOT Boris) that's being HIRED by (THE BIG REAL and or SERIOUS PRODUCER),is being hired from the Neck UP, and because he Understands THAT THE TRU DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO PIECES OF METAL ROLLING ON FOUR RUBBER WHEELS) iTS WHAT MAKES THE ACTUAL REAL, BIG, SERIOUS JOBS HAPPEN.

Thats why they never hired Boris to Do the Job.
They ACTUALLY hired, THE TALENTED and WELL EQUIPPED Igor, The Owner of the PORSCHE CAYENE or The Mercedes M Class AMG, with the Russian ARM, Pursuit System etc. etc etc.Mount on top of it.
and i always say when they see my gear on set and say, "WOW your gear is Amazing."i reply: "ITS NOT THE ARROW OR THE BOW IS THE INDIAN", that's what i say. But i truly understand that the gear can NOT BE MICKEY MOUSE.

Now Constantine and Rob show me, (NO DON"T BOTHER TO SHOW ME,) an actual Camera car with A RUSSIAN ARM, Pursuit System or telescoping boom that happens to be a KIA SORENTO.

As a matter of FACT all the MERCEDES, COMMERCIALS ARE SHOT FROM PORSCHE CAYENNE'S. (and the same goes for every single serious Automovile)
And as a matter of fact MOST of the Average car Commercials that go from mercedes, Audi or BMW DOWN. and that are shot in THIS STYLE are shot from MERCEDES.

PS: below is a picture of the car the producers got from boris, (The Beetle) what happens is that they only got it for scrap metal change. opened a hole on its roof, got the 360 degree shot that they wanted and then dumped it in the junkyard.

Go THINK and FIGURE!

 

[Mark Collins]

BORIS walks in to a Mercedes Benz dealer and says how much is this M class this M550 suv?
the salesman responds, they start at $57.590.
BORIS Replies, how come I'TS SOOOOO EXPENSIVE!
I can get a KIA sorento for 20.995

BORIS adds,
the KIA has "ABSOLUTELY THE SAME" Four wheels equipment and options as the MERCEDES.

the sales man just gives him a hand shake and moves to A CUSTOMER. (maybe....maybe.... the sales man will give Boris a business card but its unlikely, actually Boris will NEVER ever get a call from the sales man)

in this case, as in ALL.

You GET what YOU PAY.
and it goes just the same way with the (REAL, BIG or SERIOUS) producers.

(which in this case is not only the Metal with four rubber tires) But The peace of mind that the Individual ( NOT Boris) that's being HIRED by (THE BIG REAL and or SERIOUS PRODUCER),is being hired from the Neck UP, and because he Understands THAT THE TRU DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO PIECES OF METAL ROLLING ON FOUR RUBBER WHEELS) iTS WHAT MAKES THE ACTUAL REAL, BIG, SERIOUS JOBS HAPPEN.

Thats why they never hired Boris to Do the Job.
They ACTUALLY hired, THE TALENTED and WELL EQUIPPED Igor, The Owner of the PORSCHE CAYENE or The Mercedes M Class AMG, with the Russian ARM, Pursuit System etc. etc etc.Mount on top of it.
and i always say when they see my gear on set and say, "WOW your gear is Amazing."i reply: "ITS NOT THE ARROW OR THE BOW IS THE INDIAN", that's what i say. But i truly understand that the gear can NOT BE MICKEY MOUSE.

Now Constantine and Rob show me an actual Camera car with A RUSSIAN ARM, Pursuit System or telescoping boom that happens to be a KIA SORENTO.

As a matter of FACT all the MERCEDES, COMMERCIALS ARE SHOT FROM PORSCHE CAYENNE'S. (and the same goes for every single serious Automovile)
And as a matter of fact MOST of the Average car Commercials that go from mercedes, Audi or BMW DOWN. and that are shot in THIS STYLE are shot from MERCEDES.

Go THINK and FIGURE!

German Engineering FTW

 

[Brian D. Goff]

You GET what YOU PAY.
and it goes just the same way with the (REAL, BIG or SERIOUS) producers.

So I guess the Epic sucks and Alexa must be the far better Camera because it cost more?

I don't think so - it's about engineering and a well engineered device might just have less parts than the competition = lower cost in manufacturing and therefor lower sales price. The Actioncam has nearly half the parts than most of the serious competition and that's one of the reasons it's far less cost.

Just my 2 cents as a manufacturer

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Gustavo ha ha ha for whats its worth I can show you many cars that the russian arm is mounted on, and just for the record the russian arm is mounted in many different cars depenting on the shoot. In fact go back to history of the russian arm and you will see some amazing shots made with it mounted on Big non Porche vehicles.
Now if you think that TIFFEN is the top of the range in the stabilizer industry then you must try other systems , and you probably ignore what all top ops in the world use, in most cases its just the D70 arms.
I have almost worked with most of the systems for the last 14 years, from 3A, MK-V, master series, SK, PROVID, D70 - D50 ARMS, pro-arms, and Actioncam, baer-bel, I havent tested is the glidcam gold, and the Sachtler,
Iam also a designer and not only a operator.
If you think Tiffen is the Porche and the others following then you got a lot to learn and I am preety suprised that a man of you age doesnt already know this.
Have you actually worked with any other rigs to come to this conclussion?
Your example as well, not relevant to this.
Oh and Iam not going to be bothered to show you, if you cant tell for your self.
Best

 

[Philippe Van Horebeek]

Steve,

To answer your original question : The flyer is probably not very suitable to use. The load capacity doesn't exceed 20 lbs or 9,1 kg. That's too light if you need to shoot with mattebox, motors, cine lenses ..... (don't forget the different modules). Both Flyer or Zephyr (same max. capacity) are not intended to use with professional digital camera's. It's generally not a good idea to load to the maximum load capacity (bad operating).
If it has to be Tiffen then the Archer S or SE is the minimum you'll need.

 

[Mark Collins]

So I guess the Epic sucks and Alexa must be the far better Camera because it cost more?

Well my opinion is that the Alexa is a far better camera system, not because it costs more but because of the way it's designed.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

(Well my opinion is that the Alexa is a far better camera system, not because it costs more but because of the way it's designed.)

there is going to be a conclusion to this when both systems are actual out and running.
At the moment you cant compare , you can only compare finished production models.
And please explain what do you think is more superior in design on the Alexa that you think is making it a better camera?Maybe in another post?