Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sony's lawsuits against RED

They needed something to say at NAB after they disappoint like usual. I hate Sony so much, I owned two of their cameras and both suck pretty bad
 
Mark Toia said:
A waste of money from both parties.

Lawyers will be loving this this fight, and will do what ever possible to drag it out as long as possible...

sad...:bored:
Click to expand...

Seriously, both parties should just concentrate on what's important, and its not who has the best lawyer. You're both pretty girls, now go back to work!
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Completely predictable. And one can only chuckle at the timing. I can just hear the statements they will be making in the Sony booth to potential customers ...
Click to expand...

Yes, impeccable timing on this. ;) And I suppose Sony is going to claim they have a patent on remote control for a camera or something. The thought of discussion in the Sony booth is cringe-inducing. It usually is anyway, but now it's worse. :(


mikeburton said:
This is a battle of ugly vs ugly. Unfortunately, RED started this battle and now only the consumer is going to pay, either in their workflows, the cost of camera/accessory prices, etc. Put the attorneys down boys!
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure RED started it. Sometimes you have to stand up and fight for what is yours. Even if you have to climb a mountain of shit to do it.


Mark Toia said:
A waste of money from both parties.

Lawyers will be loving this this fight, and will do what ever possible to drag it out as long as possible...

sad...:bored:
Click to expand...

And this wraps it up in a nutshell. I'm not sure if anyone ever wins in these large patent and IP conflicts. Just look at Apple vs. Samsung. Nothing there but bad blood and fat lawyers.
 
Now this technology that Red stole...was that before or after Sony broke in to Red's facility way back when?

Seriously though, this does come as expected and if anything might bring to light the ongoing problem with patent laws. Maybe some decent reform will come out of it. Probably not, but one can only hope.
 
Some posters here are taking this in a very casual fashion. I think that's wrong; this is not good, or humorous, or a spectator sport. Just watch out... as I posted in the 'RED sues Sony' thread, these patent fights are getting *nasty*

So far it's often been confined to manufacturers. But NPEs (patent trolls) especially have been increasingly going after *end users* - suing your local coffee shop for infringing some dubious patent related to WiFi because they use a Netgear access point, instead of suing Netgear directly.

There's no reason this couldn't affect our business too. Users of RED cameras could get letters from Sony lawyers saying 'pay us off or we'll shut down your business'; users of Sony cameras could get the same letter from RED lawyers.

We're not just spectators, or collateral damage here; we could each end up right in the firing line.

Mike
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Some posters here are taking this in a very casual fashion. I think that's wrong; this is not good, or humorous, or a spectator sport. Just watch out... as I posted in the 'RED sues Sony' thread, these patent fights are getting *nasty*

So far it's often been confined to manufacturers. But NPEs (patent trolls) especially have been increasingly going after *end users* - suing your local coffee shop for infringing some dubious patent related to WiFi because they use a Netgear access point, instead of suing Netgear directly.

There's no reason this couldn't affect our business too. Users of RED cameras could get letters from Sony lawyers saying 'pay us off or we'll shut down your business'; users of Sony cameras could get the same letter from RED lawyers.

We're not just spectators, or collateral damage here; we could each end up right in the firing line.

Mike
Click to expand...
Interesting point Mike, but I don't buy into the idea that Sony or Red will go after end users. Too much of a PR hit. As for the case itself, these two will battle it out and we'll have to wait for the outcome to see if there is major impact. I suspect there will be no result that ends with one company having to remove all of it's cameras from the market.
 
Martin Stevens said:
Not only will Red win...they have already won.
Click to expand...

Yes, but Red have already won without suing Sony or anyone else for infringing their ridiculous patent. IMO Red's patent is as bad as Apple's rounded corners business. Red has lost a lot of goodwill by suing first, there really was no need to do anything of that sort since no one is remotely offering the same performance / $ as Red Epic. Any illusions about Red being 'different' are gone, they are every bit as ugly as other players.

Understandable that Sony would countersue. What an ugly way to do business.
 
There was a Time when You could Patent a Product, but only For a Limited time. Then it became Public domain so that the Public could improve and Evolve the product...
http://vimeo.com/14912890 This is Video 1, there are Four.... its Enlightning, Apple being the worst of them all when it comes to Copying others work, then suing when it gets copied. Shameless.
 
Last edited:
Hopefully Mike's concerns will not manifest as this really should be between the parties involved. That said, some good friends of mine who were wholesalers in a different business got sued by one of the major manufacturers because that was the only way that manufacturer could assign damages and get the case into their jurisdiction. The manufacturer who was the underlying target of the suit ended up losing several of their dealers. The wholesalers who stuck it out had to pay licensing fees out of their pockets to settle the claims. After the dust settled, the manufacturer who had been the target shipped cases of free product to the wholesalers which they were then able to sell to offset their costs.

Suffice it to say there were a lot of very pissed off people, and the manufacturer that won in court was reviled by a lot of people for their tactics.

I have full respect for people defending their IP, stealing is stealing, but I sincerely hope the neither the RedUser community or Sony shooters get dragged into it directly. With luck they will agree to some sort of cross licensing scheme, maybe a one time payment and then bury the hatchet. Protracted legal battles suck resources from the parties involved and breed more frakkin' lawyers - yucko.

Cheers - #19
 
It all amounts to PR in the end.
By the time the suits get settled all of this tech will be far outdated.
Ridiculous really, whoever started the fight.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Interesting point Mike, but I don't buy into the idea that Sony or Red will go after end users. Too much of a PR hit. As for the case itself, these two will battle it out and we'll have to wait for the outcome to see if there is major impact. I suspect there will be no result that ends with one company having to remove all of it's cameras from the market.
Click to expand...

I don't think they will either.

Point is, they *could*, and we have to bear that in mind; the threat is there and real, as Blair Paulsen points out.

In military intelligence and threat assessment, capability is all that counts; it's what your enemy CAN do that matters, not what you think or hope they will do.

Any time there's a patent suit involving a key component of your business, you should be concerned.

Mike
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I'm not so sure RED started it. Sometimes you have to stand up and fight for what is yours. Even if you have to climb a mountain of shit to do it.
Click to expand...

In this case I disagree. Red sued Sony first. It's no secret around here that Red and Sony have had bad blood since before day 1 of Red. I see Red's lawsuit on Sony as a fuck you to Sony more than anything. Sort of a "we are grown up now and won't be pushed around anymore, so lets look for anything we can to embarrass and humiliate them. This is a pissing match and both companies are to blame. It tarnishes both their reputations. I don't see it as a "good for you for sticking up for yourself" I see it as a no win game of penis fencing. In the meantime, a lot of respect for both companies is lost and the consumer will lose in the end.
Sony was / is wrong for their previous attacks and mocking of Red but Red didn't have to take it to this level. Oh well. It's disappointing.
 
Sue me sue you blues

Sue me sue you blues


It reminds on SUE ME, SUE YOU BLUES:

"And you serve me and I'll serve you
Swing your partners, all get screwed
Bring your lawyer and I'll bring mine
Get together and we could have a bad time

It's affidavit swearing time
Sign it on the dotted line
Hold your bible in your hand
Now all that's left is to find yourself a new band

We're gonna play the sue me, sue you blues
We're gonna play the sue me, sue you blues

We're gonna play the sue me, sue you blues
Sue me, sue you blues

Hold the block on money flow
I move it into joint escrow
Court receiver, laughs and thrills
But in the end we just pay those lawyers their bills

When you serve me and I'll serve you
Swing your partners, all get screwed
Bring your lawyer and I'll bring mine
Get together and we could have a bad time

We're gonna play the sue me, sue you blues
Sue me, sue you blues
I'm tired of playing the sue me, sue you blues"


Read more: GEORGE HARRISON - SUE ME, SUE YOU BLUES LYRICS
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Completely predictable. And one can only chuckle at the timing.
Click to expand...
That's the first thing I thought: just a few days before NAB. Very interesting.

Sony does have a helluva lot of patents over the years. The question to me is how many of them are still valid, how much Red did possibly infringe, and whether the real goal is to convince Red to cross-license the two corporations' patents. Stranger things have happened before. For example, quite a few of Sony's patents on U-Matic were the basis of VHS, but (much to Sony's annoyance) their agreement with rivals Matsushita allowed them to to use the patents to create an entirely new format, which is something Sony hadn't anticipated.

While people kind of count Sony out sometimes, you have to bear in mind that they're still a corporation worth over $150 billion, with 162,000 employees worldwide. Even compared to Mr. Jannard's wealth, this kind of cash pays for a lot of lawyers.

mikeburton said:
This is a pissing match and both companies are to blame. It tarnishes both their reputations. I don't see it as a "good for you for sticking up for yourself" I see it as a no win game of penis fencing. In the meantime, a lot of respect for both companies is lost and the consumer will lose in the end.
Click to expand...
I don't think the customers care a damn about who invented what first. All they care about is 1) who makes the best camera for a specific project, 2) whose products are the most reliable, and 3) how much do the products cost, not necessarily in that order. The honor and reputation of the companies are way low on that list of priorities for most people.
 
Kipling wrote inimitably about patents:

"Steel and the first expansions. It paid, I tell you, it paid,
When we came with our nine-knot freighters and collared the long-run trade!
And they asked me how I did it; and I gave 'em the Scripture text,
"You keep your light so shining a little in front o' the next!"
They copied all they could follow, but they couldn't copy my mind,
And I left 'em sweating and stealing a year and a half behind."




From "The Mary Gloster" written in 1894 about a shipowner competing in world trade.

Mike
 
I think it would be fair play if sony demands that we all give them our red motes as long as they, in return, gives us each and every one a little F65.
Then when it's all settled Red can give us that red mote iphone app an we can continue as normal... .:001_tongue:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top