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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sony A7S III - Supreme Compact 4K

Vincent Stekelenburg said:
Well, those features are my point. Who cares for 6K and Global Shutter when the images produced by the A7siii show very little rolling shutter and plenty of sharpness in the first place?
Seems like a very niche market for Red. VFX people maybe? People who own S35 lenses? I thought this was supposed to be Reds prosumer camera.

+ Price...
+ Full frame in a smaller package than Komodo. Red would probably charge double for a FF sensor.
+ True 16bit linear raw output
+ Dynamic range of 15+ stops
+ Image quality so far seems to be superior to that of Komodo
Click to expand...

You do seem to mess it all up. Indeed, Komodo isn't a competition for a7s III - because they are for different markets, I mean totally. While Komodo is a cinema-grade crash/action/b-cam - with a proper SDI, mounting solutions, DCI aspect-ratios, 16 bit internal raw, proper OLPF, ANA support etc etc etc.

On the other side A7SIII is a "video" camera in a consumer SLR body, with HDMI, bad codecs (h.265 h.264 based), lack of proper SDI, lack of proper powering solution, uncomfortable for on-set purpose camera body. It's totally a consumer tool, which is built around one man handling it all.

They are built around totally different markets, while Komodo is built for a proper set, where you always have a director, crew, sound and vfx - and it covers all the check boxes needed - Sony and Canon on the other hand cover consumers with their one man covers it all needs. It's ok for both to exist, just pick a proper tool necessary for your occasion.

Though for the money of A7S III or Canon R5 you can buy BMPCC4K & 6K, Z-Cam, Kinefinity, Panasonic S1H (which is much better for a set compared to Sony or Canon), Canon C200 (used), Sony FS-line bodies, used DSMC1 Red's, URSA Mini Pro G1/2 (used), Komodo is in a similar ballpark. You can literally pick any tool you need - just be certain what you need.
 
Vincent Stekelenburg said:
Well, those features are my point. Who cares for 6K and Global Shutter when the images produced by the A7siii show very little rolling shutter and plenty of sharpness in the first place?
Seems like a very niche market for Red. VFX people maybe? People who own S35 lenses? I thought this was supposed to be Reds prosumer camera.

+ Price...
+ Full frame in a smaller package than Komodo. Red would probably charge double for a FF sensor.
+ True 16bit linear raw output
+ Dynamic range of 15+ stops
+ Image quality so far seems to be superior to that of Komodo
Click to expand...

A7SIII also beats ALEXA LF I guess?
 
Šabović Adis;1906703 said:
A7SIII also beats ALEXA LF I guess?
Click to expand...

Im just curious how much market there is left for Komodo after these are cameras were introduced. Thats all. Not trying to start an argument over which camera is better.
Since Red was aiming at the lower end of the market with Komodo. Those people will happily put up with the A7siii limitations in regards to ergonomics and connectivity i think.
 
Really different cameras. Depends on what you’re doing.

A7S3 is just super super different than a Komodo.

Think about it, if you have to get an Atomos to record 12 or 16 bit raw you’re already into a different cost bracket closer to a Komodo, you don’t have rolling shutter with Komodo.

Not knocking the A7SIII at all, just a very different tool for different purposes (maybe there is overlap - but differences seem stronger than similarities of these two.) I would love to try all of them, but I feel like I would probably maybe tick more boxes of satisfaction and fewer of frustration for my personal work with a Komodo than an A7S3.
 
Agree that the form factor/feature sets of the Komodo and Sony A7s3 present different opportunities/challenges during acquisition. The dichotomy might be even more meaningful in post due to bit depth, codec, oversampling, timecode, etc. With some talent and TLC I'd imagine the Sony footage could be matched well enough to cut in with your "A" cam, but you better have a good colorist - and if you can afford one of those...

I respect what the mirrorless Sony A7 series cameras can do - the amount of real chroma in low light and the form factor can be just what you want for some situations. The internal codecs are limited, but they do keep the data footprint small. As a personal, walk around camera that can also capture some interesting angles on set it makes sense. IMHO, it would make a lot more sense at half the price...

The other big differentiator in my mind is that I could be persuaded to shot an indie feature on a Komodo - the A7r3, not so much...

Cheers - #19
 
Vincent Stekelenburg said:
Im just curious how much market there is left for Komodo after these are cameras were introduced. Thats all. Not trying to start an argument over which camera is better.
Since Red was aiming at the lower end of the market with Komodo. Those people will happily put up with the A7siii limitations in regards to ergonomics and connectivity i think.
Click to expand...

They will appeal to different markets in terms of function and IQ potential. Komodo was designed primarily as a companion action cam/crash cam/drone cam to high end digital cinema cameras with no compromise in ultimate IQ potential.
It will of course have much broader appeal, but Jarred early on said he would consider it a success if it only sold to current Red owners.

The Sony for starters doesn't shoot DCI theatrical format 4K. For movies it is pretty much the standard XAVC 8-bit compressed video codecs, 4:2:0 internally and 4:2:2 externally up to 30p 4K and 60p HD.
Nothing radically new here. 14-bit RAW frame rate for stills is just 10FPS. No RAW motion movie recording.
Minor upgrade to the previous version. Its primary claim to fame is low light sensitivity. It is a mid price range consumer DSLR.
 
The A7S Mk2 is awesome run & gun camera great for that quick interview and now with the high speed frame rate its now 3 times better. Finally Sony delivered!
 
David Rasberry said:
The Sony for starters doesn't shoot DCI theatrical format 4K. For movies it is pretty much the standard XAVC 8-bit compressed video codecs, 4:2:0 internally and 4:2:2 externally up to 30p 4K and 60p HD.
Nothing radically new here. 14-bit RAW frame rate for stills is just 10FPS. No RAW motion movie recording.
Minor upgrade to the previous version. Its primary claim to fame is low light sensitivity. It is a mid price range consumer DSLR.
Click to expand...

You’re correct, no DCI 4K for now in the Sony A7s3. But apparently it can do UHD 4:2:2 10bit internal at all frame rates, 24,30,60,120p, plus undercranking, with only a minimal 1.1x crop in 120p. Full scan readout of the sensor in all modes, with very low rolling shutter. Not sure what the codec is at 240p, just that it is HD. Apparently, it can also output 16-bit raw video over HDMI, though there is no recorder available that can handle it yet. Seems like a pretty big to me.
 
David Rasberry said:
For movies it is pretty much the standard XAVC 8-bit compressed video codecs, 4:2:0 internally and 4:2:2 externally up to 30p 4K and 60p HD.
Nothing radically new here. 14-bit RAW frame rate for stills is just 10FPS. No RAW motion movie recording.
Minor upgrade to the previous version. Its primary claim to fame is low light sensitivity. It is a mid price range consumer DSLR.
Click to expand...

I think homeboy read the specs for the wrong camera? This is mostly wrong.

Bruce Allen
www.bruceallen.tv
 
Sony A7s iii Vs Canon EOS R5 Low Light Comparison

Examples start at the 00:42 second mark



Sony A7SIII | CINEMATIC FOOTAGE 4K LOWLIGHT TEST





A Night in New York' - A Short Movie shot on the Sony a7S III


 
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Satsuki Murashige said:
You’re correct, no DCI 4K for now in the Sony A7s3. But apparently it can do UHD 4:2:2 10bit internal at all frame rates, 24,30,60,120p, plus undercranking, with only a minimal 1.1x crop in 120p. Full scan readout of the sensor in all modes, with very low rolling shutter. Not sure what the codec is at 240p, just that it is HD. Apparently, it can also output 16-bit raw video over HDMI, though there is no recorder available that can handle it yet. Seems like a pretty big to me.
Click to expand...

Apologies, I was looking at the A7 III spec sheet. Wrong camera.

Still, not impressed with the overall DR or the way it handles blown highlights in samples so far.
 
David Rasberry said:
Apologies, I was looking at the A7 III spec sheet. Wrong camera.

Still, not impressed with the overall DR or the way it handles blown highlights in samples so far.
Click to expand...

No worries. Yes, I think highlight rolloff is always a challenge with small mirrorless cameras. I guess we’ll see how much can be pulled from the S-Log3 in 10bit 422, and whether raising the ISO from the base settings can help with the roll-off, as it does with Sony Cinealta cameras. Since the noise performance is so good in underexposure, this may be a viable approach.

Still, if you’re comparing it to other cameras you might have used in the past at more expensive price points, I think it’s pretty darn good. I’d look at these cameras more like a B or C camera that you can quickly grab to get a POV or gimbal shot, or when you might need the autofocus for a tracking shot. The low-light night performance alone would make it so useful to me in documentary situations. There have been a number of times when I’ve had to tell the director, sorry, too dark we can’t shoot anymore. And countless other times when I’ve seen some beautiful light with the naked eye in the middle of the night and don’t have a camera that can capture it. This sort of puts us back into still photo long exposure territory for capturing moving images. So it’s an interesting tool to me.
 
Satsuki Murashige said:
You’re correct, no DCI 4K for now in the Sony A7s3. But apparently it can do UHD 4:2:2 10bit internal at all frame rates, 24,30,60,120p, plus undercranking, with only a minimal 1.1x crop in 120p. Full scan readout of the sensor in all modes, with very low rolling shutter. Not sure what the codec is at 240p, just that it is HD. Apparently, it can also output 16-bit raw video over HDMI, though there is no recorder available that can handle it yet. Seems like a pretty big to me.
Click to expand...

The raw video will be able to be recorded by the Atomos Ninja V. It will be able to take the 16-bit linear raw and record it as a 12-bit log ProRes Raw file, up to at least 4K 60fps:

https://www.atomos.com/cameras/sony-a7siii

I posted a link to a video of some of the ProRes Raw footage in post 16.
 
I own the A7R III, and I have to say that it's not the camera I love most, but it's darn useful-- small, IBIS, batteries last a long time, XLR in/wireless in with a hot shoe attachment, can stick it on a prosumer slider without extra support. And so I think this new camera looks like a bunch more of a good thing. The biggest drawback to the A7R is that the I often wish I could push the footage a little more, as it really suffers if I don't nail exposure (typical example: underexposing to protect highlights usually means wonky skin tones). I'd think that maybe the 4:2:2 10-bit mode on the new camera could really help.

I'm not sure all the spec-based comparisons to other cameras make sense to me. For the way I'd use it, the A7S III is not a direct competitor to Komodo, because the main reason to own a Komodo for me would be to trade some convenience for no-compromise visual quality. (While still being cheaper, more portable, and less power hungry than a standard cinema camera.) But there are definitely times when they'd overlap-- I could see taking either on a scout, on the one hand, or for a personal project like interviewing a relative or something. But the Komodo for me would probably want more rigging and a nearby laptop to offload those big files...
 
Moonwalk: A Sony Alpha Film | Sony a7S III


By Sony I Alpha Universe





Sony A7s III - No Limits 4K by Jacques Crafford


By Jacques Crafford


 
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