Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

scarlett competitors in near future

David Rasberry said:
They have been taking deposits for two years, but none delivered yet.
Click to expand...

Sounds like they are saving up money to make them. I would be asking for my money back after 2 years, just in case they go bust! 2 years is a joke, I'm glad RED doesn't take orders then leave you waiting 2 years for your camera! :scared:
 
NBS Studio said:
3K for $3K went out of the window along time ago. We are getting a lot more for your buck. I would like the package with a 5" LCD rather than a puny 2.8" LCD like XDCAM's. :cryin: I'll have to buy a 5" or 7" straight away and the 2.8" LCD will be placed in the bin.
Click to expand...

You don't have to buy it with the 2.8". They have said that there will be other packages available. But you will want to go with a production package of sorts to cut down on accessories cost. Anyway, all that seems to have changed too and we don't have all the details.

The $3K for 3K still seems to hold water in that the camera body itself is under $3K for the interchangeable lens Scarlet. Of course, that's not what the original marketing was about. But still it's damn impressive if you look at what else is out there. I'm thinking a lot has changed with the Scarlet that we are unaware of and won't be made known until RED is about to start taking orders.
 
NBS Studio said:
And the Scarlet is the better camera. More for ya buck!!
Click to expand...

Well, that camera is available... right now.

Also, C-mount ready and you get to choose your own monitor and media formats (in the form of a laptop/tablet).

No one seems to have touched it though, so it is an unknown entity (maybe someone here can tell me otherwise).
 
Other cameras

Other cameras

Well, that camera is available... right now.

No one seems to have touched it though, so it is an unknown entity
Click to expand...

Maybe because there are a few small items missing from "sensor in a box" cameras....

... like monitoring, recording, audio, timecode :-)
 
Very true and relying on a laptop for all of that is risky as hell.... I chatted alot with their tech guys and they talk the talk, but wouldn't send screen shots of their monitor/capture software, so I backed off.
 
Bits needed

Bits needed

Neil B Smith said:
So why need any higher?
Click to expand...

There is a difference between asking how many bits are needed between ungraded True RAW or Compressed un-white balanced camera data, and graded data that will pass through various image processing steps such as compression for broadcast or gamma adjustment in the monitor.

With noiseless (computer generated) 8 bit images you can see tone banding on a gamma 2.2 monitor.

A noiseless image needs between 9bits and 10 bits not to see tone banding.

A image with some noise in it, uncompressed, 9bits may be enough if it is already at the display monitor gamma, if any gamma, brightness, or contrast and color adjustments are made then you need more than 9 bits to avoid scaling errors that would reduce parts of the image tones to 7 or 8 bits so that banding and Posterization would show up.

Because True RAW sensor data is NOT at display gamma, you would get tone banding and Posterization in the dark tones when the gamma is adjusted from Gamma 1.0 to Gamma 2.2 or higher if the EI/ISO is being pushed, if you start with 10 bits (because in a Digital Cinema Camera you do not expose so that green pixels exposed for 90% white card are at sensor ADC maximum count, Panavision seems to expose white at about 16% of signal in Pana-Log(?) or more than 2 bits down).

In a sensor with noise in frames that are high resolution, a 12 bit sensor gives you about 4 stops over the minimum of 8 bits. Since you underexpose the sensor at least one stop to avoid the "video look" of blasted highlights you now have 3 stops of latitude, but not really since the moving pattern noise and fixed pattern noise are in the lower bit or two, and you need more than one extra bit for the gamma correction, so the minimum for good results in a Digital Cinema Camera is 12bits of linear data. If you gamma adjust, such as 1.7 for LOG-C, or gamma 2.2 for ITU709, etc. you might pack enough data into 10bits but you get a little less grading range because of scaling errors, its better to save 12bits linear, then convert that to 16bits for grading and processing then convert the finished graded image to 10bits like DPX for final use (after which no grading changes are made on the data).
 
I have to say Dan,

That I often read your posts while scratching my ass and wondering "What the hell did he just say?", but this one I think I can grasp. Well said.
 
Neil B Smith said:
Sounds like they are saving up money to make them. I would be asking for my money back after 2 years, just in case they go bust! 2 years is a joke, I'm glad RED doesn't take orders then leave you waiting 2 years for your camera! :scared:
Click to expand...


They are a much smaller company than Red. I think it also shows, as if it even needs to be said again, that these new raw cameras taken an immense amount of research and development.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
I have spent 12 days shooting with a RED ONE over the last 4 weeks (3-4 more to go) and I am more eager than ever to get my hands on my own Scarlet! :001_tt1:
Click to expand...

I am very much looking forward to shooting with epic and scarlet, however as they say, "a watched clock doesn't move very fast" So my philosophy is to get on with my work, and enjoy "the red now" as the happy tomorrow will come along in due course!
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
You don't have to buy it with the 2.8". They have said that there will be other packages available. But you will want to go with a production package of sorts to cut down on accessories cost. Anyway, all that seems to have changed too and we don't have all the details.

The $3K for 3K still seems to hold water in that the camera body itself is under $3K for the interchangeable lens Scarlet. Of course, that's not what the original marketing was about. But still it's damn impressive if you look at what else is out there. I'm thinking a lot has changed with the Scarlet that we are unaware of and won't be made known until RED is about to start taking orders.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Glad to hear that there will be various packages available. :001_tt1: (I'm loving RED). My main background is corporate. I was was thinking of having a 5" LCD (don't know if 7" will look too big for the Scarlet), the Pro i/o module, the SSD module, and to power all this the battery module. :) A good shoulder mount system, matte box, bottom plate for attaching onto a fluid head tripod... the usual good stuff for a corporate shoot. :drool:
 
Jim Retar said:
Well, that camera is available... right now.

Also, C-mount ready and you get to choose your own monitor and media formats (in the form of a laptop/tablet).

No one seems to have touched it though, so it is an unknown entity (maybe someone here can tell me otherwise).
Click to expand...

A camera that requires a laptop or a tablet pc attached doesn't really appeal. Unless you like to strap it to the camera with duck-tape. :badputer:

The problem with a lot of these new raw cameras is that they only film up to HD / 2K where RED goes much further. You also need all sorts of other guff attached via wires to make the shoot possible. If you are running around with a camera, you'll need someone else running around with you in-tandem with all thats required... and not forgetting the poor old sound man being dragged behind with his boom mic!

The new RED line of cameras are superb!! They are modular. Everything you'll ever need in clip-on modules all on a light-weight sesame-seed "Brain".

I think I'll do the wise thing and wait for my RED.
 
Neil B Smith said:
A camera that requires a laptop or a tablet pc attached doesn't really appeal. Unless you like to strap it to the camera with duck-tape. :badputer:
Click to expand...

what wrong with that?
picture.php
 
Neil B Smith said:
12 bit will be fine for me. 10 bit is what the BBC requests as a minimum colour format, so 12 bit will be perfect for my work. Cineform codec uses 10bit in HD and 12 bit in 4K mode. Also the AJA KONA 3 card uses 10 bit. HDCAM is 10bit. So why need any higher?

What is the colour bit depth of the stills going to be, thats the question?
Click to expand...

well, when you count the HDRx mode.. more bit depth will be essential to store all that information.. and of course more dynamic range at post is what RAW is there for..
 
Neil B Smith said:
The new RED line of cameras are superb!!
Click to expand...

Rephrase to "The new RED line of cameras will be superb!!"

This thread is about other options... other than the AF-100 and some vague details about a Sony S35 under $20k.... we have to look to what is available now.... including tethered systems. (I have bolted on a 7" tablet to my 5DII and ran the Canon software to get good monitoring and various histograms... worked out well).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top