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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet-W Compression Spec Change

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Ian Ghandi

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The minimum compression ratios for the Scarlet-W has changed on the spec page it now reads 5k @ 24fps is 5:1 instead of 4:1 when announced in December. Not sure why it changed without notice.
 
Ian Ghandi said:
Umm this is a negative change and I am talking about the Scarlet-W.
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I think he was sarcastically pointing out the irony of what happened with Raven.

Anyway, for anyone interested, here is a screen grab of the updated(?) Red ratios, as per the DSMC manual:

scarletw_redcodes.jpg
 
Ian Ghandi said:
Umm this is a negative change and I am talking about the Scarlet-W.
Click to expand...

That was ironic .....
Just to tell that they added some crazy stuffs to Raven buyers and that the special treat for scarlet guys was to downgrade the camera.
So the 140MB/s spec is not applying to standard 5k 24p motion, the purpose of the camera?
It's like "ok guys, the camera is twice as powerful, we can't give you more speed at 5k than what you had but hey look you can shoot 4:1 24p now". And they just changed that everywhere, on their website, even on the manual, and no one told anything here, really?
 
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I understand why people are pissed, as 5:1 is fair jump, mainly because with ProRes you're now looking at 6:1 or even 7:1. Not so shit hot anymore, particularely when it comes to VFX work.

In any case, thankfully for those of us who only shoot in 5K HD/WS/2:1, the original 4:1 still applies.
 
Ugo Del said:
That was ironic .....
Just to tell that they added some crazy stuffs to Raven buyers and that the special treat for scarlet guys was to downgrade the camera.
So the 140MB/s spec is not applying to standard 5k 24p motion, the purpose of the camera?
Click to expand...

Sorry Poe's Law in effect. I am not sure if it is or not. Perhaps in testing when too many photocites were being stimulated they found the camera struggled to keep up the data rates.
 
Ian Ghandi said:
Sorry Poe's Law in effect. I am not sure if it is or not. Perhaps in testing when too many photocites were being stimulated they found the camera struggled to keep up the data rates.
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Then maybe you just don't release the camera yet. Put more power in it. Or just release what you tested so far and was working, as specs on the website. Well, it would make sense to me. Maybe it's about too many people taking the scarlet-w route instead of the weapon and they decided to just offer 5:1. But offering 4.5k to Raven and downgrading the scarlet make them closer too.
 
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Nathan DuMoulin said:
I understand why people are pissed, as 5:1 is fair jump, mainly because with ProRes you're now looking at 6:1 or even 7:1. Not so shit hot anymore, particularely when it comes to VFX work.

In any case, thankfully for those of us who only shoot in 5K HD/WS/2:1, the original 4:1 still applies.
Click to expand...

It's good to shoot 5KFF and reframe too. And the compression changes apply to slowmo at different resolution too.
 
Ugo Del said:
It's good to shoot 5KFF and reframe too. And the compression changes apply to slowmo at different resolution too.
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Can you give a few examples of where we took compression hits in higher frame rates? That's bad news, even for us non FF guys.
 
GUys I am new to the Red world and I am deciding which one to get between Raven and Scarlet...can you give me more info about the compression rates? Also how you compare the compression rate to the actual recording space?
Many thanks
 
Luca Volpe said:
GUys I am new to the Red world and I am deciding which one to get between Raven and Scarlet...can you give me more info about the compression rates? Also how you compare the compression rate to the actual recording space?
Many thanks
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Well the scarlet-w just stepped out of the VFX world where 5k 4:1 is the bare minimum. At equal resolution they're the same. Buy the Raven, it has more love from Red than the scarlet ^^
 
HO nooooo I am very confused now!!...lol...but still Scarlet is S35 no? Vs Raven... plus is 5k...lol. confused...!
 
Luca Volpe said:
HO nooooo I am very confused now!!...lol...but still Scarlet is S35 no? Vs Raven... plus is 5k...lol. confused...!
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Yes the scarlet-W is still the better camera with real S35. I was (half) joking because the specs have changed. For some it's not that important, for others what is no longer in the specs is what drove them to buy it.
 
Luca Volpe said:
HO nooooo I am very confused now!!...lol...but still Scarlet is S35 no? Vs Raven... plus is 5k...lol. confused...!
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The compression ratios between the two cameras are the exact same. It's the other aspects that will be the determining factors in your decision. Maybe try this thread for starters:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?139077-Raven-vs-Scarlet-W

There's a lot of people in the exact same situation as you, over in the Raven sub-forum (myself included prior to making the upgrade to Scarlet-W).

http://www.reduser.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?78-RAVEN
 
Thanks Nathan, I posted there too I think...but now with this thread I am confused as looks like people is now disappointed from it....also what you mean for VFX world?
 
Luca Volpe said:
Thanks Nathan, I posted there too I think...but now with this thread I am confused as looks like people is now disappointed from it....also what you mean for VFX world?
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Compositing and such, where people need to be able to extract clean keys and mattes. Higher compression is not ideal for this sort of work.
 
Ha ok, sometimes I need to "translate" in Italian some of the specs. so I get confused. Well I do mainly promo videos, fashion stuff and for me Scarlett looks lke a better investment for the future vs Raven.
 
To put it into perspective. the last 2 features i shot on red I have set the compression to 5:1. 7:1 would have been fine. at 5:1 the camera produces the best images i can imagine for my level of work. both the Raven and the Scarlet-W will look incredible compression will not be the issue. For me the switch to Scarlet-W had everything to do with swap-able Lens mounts/OLPFs and 5K. I would have been more than happy to stick with Raven if the Scarlet wasn't announced. The Scarlet-W hits the sweet spot for a B-CAM and will work with my existing Dragon better, and is totally worth it.
 
Several questions

1) Looking at the Red.com Scarlet-W page it lists 5K as only going up to 50fps (max frame rate). On the chart that Nathan DuMoulin posted, at 5K it's listed as able to go up to 96fps. So does 5K end at 50fps (as listed on Red.com) or does it go up to 96fps?

2) Also, I see two figures, one for 5K and another for 5K 2:1. It's my lack of understanding, but I thought 5K and 5K 2:1 are the same pixel dimensions. Obviously not, so what are the pixel dimensions of 5K and 5K 2:1

3) Also, which one of the two (5K or 5K 2:1) are considered Full Frame?
 
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