Scarlet trade in for Epic (non Dragon)

[Daniel Peters]

Dear Jarred

I'm sure you must be getting a lot of emails about this so I'll try not to blab on too much.

Being a Scarlet owner and loving it very much, I would love to be able to trade in my Scarlet body for an EPIC-X body
plus the obvious additional fee.

As I wont be able to afford Scarlet trade in to EPIC Dragon.

Im hoping a Scarlet to EPIC-X (non dragon) is possible

If so, just curious on when this might be possible?

I appreciate your time and keep up the awesome work

Daniel

 

[Craig Lees]

Depending on when Epic Dragon might be available for Scarlet users and for what price, very likely +1 for Daniel's interest.

Craig Lees
UK

 

[Ryan De Franco]

Part of the DSMC system is you can perform your own "upgrade." You just buy a new brain. Unless Red offers a "battle tested" Scarlet program, your Scarlet is not worth very much to them. Think about it:

Every time they sold a Scarlet, they made straight profit off parts that couldn't fit the bill for an Epic.

To take that reject pile of parts back, in exchange for a discounted new Epic... how is that anything but a loss? Even if they bill you for the labor and the at-cost price of an Epic, you'd want some trade in value for your Scarlet, but to them what value does it have? Much easier to lower the price on the Epic brain and just wait for you to buy that. Oh wait, they did.

By offering entry to lower-budget folks with Scarlet, Red enabled a good many shooters to make enough money that a 20,000 Epic becomes a possibility. No way could it have been before you made bank off your Scarlet, but now you're thinking about it. In return, I'm sure they'd like to see you make that jump yourself. Try to figure out what it would cost them for the upgrade you want: you'd basically be asking them to sell you an Epic at a small or $0 profit margin, and accept a Scarlet which also has zero value, yet you'd expect some sort of trade-in value for that Scarlet...

And yet! This is exactly what they will do with Dragon, all in good time. Perhaps we will see an Epic-X upgrade option, where you receive an "end of line" Epic -X from an owner whose camera wasn't up to spec for Dragon. Who knows.

If there's one thing I'm sure of, it's that Red will find a way to put a better camera in your hands.

 

[Simon Knight]

Part of the DSMC system is you can perform your own "upgrade." You just buy a new brain. Unless Red offers a "battle tested" Scarlet program, your Scarlet is not worth very much to them. Think about it:

Every time they sold a Scarlet, they made straight profit off parts that couldn't fit the bill for an Epic.

To take that reject pile of parts back, in exchange for a discounted new Epic... how is that anything but a loss? .

Not true... Because the Epic will have been sent in to be Dragon-ed.. So many of the Epic parts will be surplus and the Scarlet will be a double-surplus-parts kits... Or a Ford Taurus in other words... (grin)

Red will do very well off the people that "just-have-to-have" a Dragon, whether they need it or not! Everyone else will benefit - just slower..!

SK

 

[Jesper Sichlau]

I wouldn't mind even upgrading to a battletested Epic, however Ryan is right. What good is a Scarlet to Red?

 

[Carlos Reyes]

As I wont be able to afford Scarlet trade in to EPIC Dragon.

We have no details of the upgrade program yet, there's no way to know this. They're gonna offer the best they can. This asking for scarlet to epic x is beginning to be as annoying as asking for more frame rates. I'm sure the suggestion has been heard by the RED team time and time again. Lets just be patient and confident that they'll offer us the best deal they possibly can within reason. Iv'e read at least a dozen threads about the same thing. All this speculation and dragon talk is crowding the forums with pretty useless information. Lets get back to sharing information and knowledge on the cameras we currently have in our possession as they are still extremely powerful, and once we get details on the new sensor we can come back to this conversation. Not to be rude, but man its getting old.

 

[Doug Beatty]

I wouldn't mind even upgrading to a battletested Epic, however Ryan is right. What good is a Scarlet to Red?

Scarlet is the gateway drug that gets people into the ecosystem. Scarlet MX is still a fantastic camera when you aren't comparing it to the best camera on the market.

What do you imagine the margin is that Red makes on SSDs? Probably a lot more than they make on brains.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Dear Jarred

I'm sure you must be getting a lot of emails about this so I'll try not to blab on too much.

Being a Scarlet owner and loving it very much, I would love to be able to trade in my Scarlet body for an EPIC-X body
plus the obvious additional fee.

As I wont be able to afford Scarlet trade in to EPIC Dragon.

Im hoping a Scarlet to EPIC-X (non dragon) is possible

If so, just curious on when this might be possible?

I appreciate your time and keep up the awesome work

Daniel

why did you get Scarlet if you wanted Epic ? i see red is great company with offering this upgrade program but you want more

 

[Daniel Peters]

why did you get Scarlet if you wanted Epic ? i see red is great company with offering this upgrade program but you want more

Like most people, I got the Scarlet thinking I can upgrade to dragon later. I know technically you still can but, epic then dragon is just a bit out of my price range.

Im not on here moaning or complaining, was just simply wondering if a trade in was possible with out the dragon.

I Love the camera, love the work flow and love the results.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Like most people, I got the Scarlet thinking I can upgrade to dragon later. I know technically you still can but, epic then dragon is just a bit out of my price range.

Im not on here moaning or complaining, was just simply wondering if a trade in was possible with out the dragon.

I Love the camera, love the work flow and love the results.

nobody promised for dragon update on Scarlet they said earlier it would be hard to upgrade or very expensive
i own Scarlet too and in 3 month i ll get Epic then upgrade dragon when its possible

 

[Peter Majtan]

A. Scarlet was indeed confirmed as upgradable to Dragon. There is even a thread about it in Recon. FYI...

B. Last time RED offered bunch of BT Scarlets - they went out before you can blink an eye. They will have no problem selling BT Scarlets - so saying that Scarlet has zero value is just plain ridiculous....

C. It's interesting to see that every time a thread pops us asking for some improvements for Scarlet - bunch of Epic owners run in to bash and troll with their usual "should have bought Epic instead" mantra... They forgot very quickly that RED greatly improves its program based on feedback and feature requests here on this forum. They also forget quickly that Epic had fantastic trade-in program with various options that included a full refund on RED ONE. They did not complain then...

Nobody here is demanding. We are asking politely if this is possible. It makes sense from business perspective for both RED and Scarlet owners. Dragon for Scarlet is at least a year away and will cost at least as much as the current Epic. Any Scarlet owner who could afford such an upgrade would have bought Epic to start with. Having the option to trade up to MX Epic now will dramatically improve the chances for the Scarlet owner to make more money for the Dragon update down the line... And the BT Scarlets would easily sell and create new RED customers. Win-win. The only complains I hear are from Epic owners that feel threatened by more Epics in the wild. You don't hear any complains from those who make good living with their Epics...

So please respect the core of this forum - the ability for RED customers to ask questions and politely request features and updates that drive this program forward. Let RED respond to these requests - don't answer on their behalf...

Peter

 

[Karim Ayari]

Peter, that was a great answer.

 

[Björn Benckert]

How much is the owner transfer fee for the scarlet? If that's low or none I thin the most logic upgrade path would be to sell scarlet straight to a new happy owner and then order a new one from RED. To me it does not seem logical to ship little camera bodies all over the world just to bounce them at the manufacture before they reach a new owner. As the price is quite low for scarlet and will probably just as for the epic be lowered in the future. Then just the shipping cost and handling will eat up a lot of the value.

So basically my suggestion is that RED would have a low transfer of owners fee and also allow change of owner without having to send in the cameras for examination.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

A. Scarlet was indeed confirmed as upgradable to Dragon. There is even a thread about it in Recon. FYI...

B. Last time RED offered bunch of BT Scarlets - they went out before you can blink an eye. They will have no problem selling BT Scarlets - so saying that Scarlet has zero value is just plain ridiculous....

C. It's interesting to see that every time a thread pops us asking for some improvements for Scarlet - bunch of Epic owners run in to bash and troll with their usual "should have bought Epic instead" mantra... They forgot very quickly that RED greatly improves its program based on feedback and feature requests here on this forum. They also forget quickly that Epic had fantastic trade-in program with various options that included a full refund on RED ONE. They did not complain then...

Nobody here is demanding. We are asking politely if this is possible. It makes sense from business perspective for both RED and Scarlet owners. Dragon for Scarlet is at least a year away and will cost at least as much as the current Epic. Any Scarlet owner who could afford such an upgrade would have bought Epic to start with. Having the option to trade up to MX Epic now will dramatically improve the chances for the Scarlet owner to make more money for the Dragon update down the line... And the BT Scarlets would easily sell and create new RED customers. Win-win. The only complains I hear are from Epic owners that feel threatened by more Epics in the wild. You don't hear any complains from those who make good living with their Epics...

So please respect the core of this forum - the ability for RED customers to ask questions and politely request features and updates that drive this program forward. Let RED respond to these requests - don't answer on their behalf...

Peter

thanks to your enthusiasm for requesting Epic features for half price camera Scarlet..They offered trade in program for Red One because Epic was 2nd GENERATION camera..Also Scarlet belongs to 2nd gen.hoping trade in option for every Red product not looking cool from my side.its business not charity
if you cant afford dragon then dont get it..im telling this to myself
i own Scarlet!!! not Epic.. (at least for now)

 

[Peter Majtan]

Thanks for missing the point Kemalettin... (welcome to my ignore list)

Björn - that is indeed a great option. One small issue about direct sale is that it kills the warranty and you only get 3 months after paying the transfer fee - without the possibility to add RED Armor. More then the fee - it would be great to see the warranty policy change - so when you sell a camera - it carries forward its original warranty (what ever is left of it). Also - when you pay the transfer fee - it includes inspection by RED - it would be great to have the option to buy the RED ARMOR at this point...

Peter

 

[jimhare]

The most recent news was that improvements to Dragon meant the Scarlet was no longer able to be upgraded, so they are offering an upgrade program to Epic for Scarlet owners, so they can also take advantage of it if desired. Is this what you mean?

"and its going to close the door on any chance of a Scarlet to be able to upgrade to Dragon."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?92158-Enter-the-Dragon

A. Scarlet was indeed confirmed as upgradable to Dragon. There is even a thread about it in Recon. FYI...

Peter

 

[Simon Knight]

Thank you Peter..
I've not been on this forum long enough to flex my, shall we say, vocal muscles..... but thats exactly what I see too. It's almost as if the Epic owners concerned don't want us to have a piece of that elusive "drug.." Can 't afford it - stay outta the club!

I know my limitations... Well my financial limitations anyway... It's taken two years to earn back the price of the HD kit that I shoot with now . So Dragon needs to be about 24 months away for it to even be considered. But I'm looking forward to the firmware updates over the next 2 years for Scarlet. There's bound to be some tech that can be "dumbed down" from the Dragon...

Perhaps Epic being the pinnacle of film-making equipment has developed a few "epic" personalities worried about the fall of their crown?

SK

 

[Daniel Pearson]

One small issue about direct sale is that it kills the warranty and you only get 3 months after paying the transfer fee - without the possibility to add RED Armor. More then the fee - it would be great to see the warranty policy change - so when you sell a camera - it carries forward its original warranty (what ever is left of it). Also - when you pay the transfer fee - it includes inspection by RED - it would be great to have the option to buy the RED ARMOR at this point...

I agree it would be great to see a warranty policy change, and that a camera's warranty should carry over to a new owner so long as the correct ownership transfer procedure is completed. I don't plant on selling my Scarlet any time soon, but if I were to look into selling it towards an Epic X, shame my quite expensive Red Armor would just vanish.

 

[Peter Majtan]

The most recent news was that improvements to Dragon meant the Scarlet was no longer able to be upgraded, so they are offering an upgrade program to Epic for Scarlet owners, so they can also take advantage of it if desired. Is this what you mean?

"and its going to close the door on any chance of a Scarlet to be able to upgrade to Dragon."

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?92158-Enter-the-Dragon

Jim - it is precisely this latest development that has prompted such a requests. We knew from get go that the Dragon upgrade was going to cost more for Scarlet then for Epic, since scarlet would require new processing boards as well. But there was never mention of full upgrade to Dragon Epic (with treade-in of the Scarlet brain). This simply puts it out of reach of 99% of Scarlet owners.

Now to be clear - nobody is holding RED up on their past posts - we all understand the implications of EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE. Please do not misread these threads. We are simply asking (in view of the latest developments) if RED would consider direct trade-in for upgrade to Epic-MX (non-Dragon), which would be far more doable and within reach of many more Scarlet owners...

I don't see anything wrong with asking about it...

Peter

 

[Noel R.]

Jim - it is precisely this latest development that has prompted such a requests. We knew from get go that the Dragon upgrade was going to cost more for Scarlet then for Epic, since scarlet would require new processing boards as well. But there was never mention of full upgrade to Dragon Epic (with treade-in of the Scarlet brain). This simply puts it out of reach of 99% of Scarlet owners.

Now to be clear - nobody is holding RED up on their past posts - we all understand the implications of EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE. Please do not misread these threads. We are simply asking (in view of the latest developments) if RED would consider direct trade-in for upgrade to Epic-MX (non-Dragon), which would be far more doable and within reach of many more Scarlet owners...

I don't see anything wrong with asking about it...

Peter

Peter, your earlier post makes sense. If RED is willing to allow a trade-in for Epic-Dragon, why not just for an Epic for those of us who can't afford the Epic-Dragon right away? We will eventually upgrade to Epic-Dragon, but this allows us to make an affordable step towards doing that. I really don't understand what's wrong with the logic here. We are not asking for more, for less, we are asking for the same, but in steps. This would help a lot of us out. I also don't understand why it's wrong to ask? A simple "No" from RED would be an acceptable answer, no one is demanding anything.