Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet (and shipping) announcement Nov. 3rd...

Christoffer Glans said:
The term "Prosumer" is so misunderstood throughout the community and outside. It doesn't really mean anything specific, it means a consumer who use professional equipment.

Scarlet as it is today is not considered a camera for prosumers, it is a professional gear aimed for lower budget productions that can't afford Epics.
Click to expand...

I take your point entirely, I think prosumer as a word should be dropped because its just too 'grey' (after all, every professional who buys a camera becomes a 'comsumer' - therefore a prosumer... Hear that Jim Cameron? You're a prosumer now heheh)
I'm looking forward to seeing the first big budget film that uses Scarlet X - maybe a certain someone will dare use it for a few pickup shots for the new Spiderman ;)
 
Prosumer generally refers to a "bridge" type product that lies between consumer and professional. At the end of the day, a professional is a professional not based on the gear he/she uses, but by gainfully being employed or a working freelancer in said professional field. Someone who makes an income at it.

Scarlet is clearly intended for the professional market - but there'll be many amateurs with the coin to spend who'll enjoy hours of shooting with one, and more power to them.

Owning an Epic, Scarlet, Alexa etc does not a professional make, but they are professional tools that professionals use.
 
Gary Paul Walker said:
I've heard a few people refer to the Scarlet X as 'prosumer' but I really dont understand this...
Click to expand...

Many refer to cameras as "prosumer" due to their price point and I think that has shifted slightly higher in the last year due to other cameras landing past $12k. There used to be a fairly large gap in the camera market between $10k and $35k cameras. Don't recall many cameras hitting $20k during the last few years until their price went down. Occasionally their feature set comes into consideration when using that word as well. I consider both the Sony FS100 and F3 to be in the "prosumer" price bracket, yet there's a massive $10k difference between the two.

However, don't let that hype word impact you at all. Scarlet X is a professional motion picture camera and a very capable one at that. Red is not wrong about 4k, 5k, and the future. All that they did was produce a camera that lands in that higher end prosumer price bracket. I can guarantee it's going to be used a whole bunch in "movieland" on main unit "A cam" photography.
 
Phil Holland said:
Many refer to cameras as "prosumer" due to their price point and I think that has shifted slightly higher in the last year due to other cameras landing past $12k. There used to be a fairly large gap in the camera market between $10k and $35k cameras. Don't recall many cameras hitting $20k during the last few years until their price went down. Occasionally their feature set comes into consideration when using that word as well. I consider both the Sony FS100 and F3 to be in the "prosumer" price bracket, yet there's a massive $10k difference between the two.

However, don't let that hype word impact you at all. Scarlet X is a professional motion picture camera and a very capable one at that. Red is not wrong about 4k, 5k, and the future. All that they did was produce a camera that lands in that higher end prosumer price bracket. I can guarantee it's going to be used a whole bunch in "movieland" on main unit "A cam" photography.
Click to expand...


I absolutly agree with you (and seriously, your contribution to this forum is awesome!). I ordered a Scarlet X package for a few different reasons, I wanted to make some films, I wanted to do some freelance work etc. I think in all of my 'to-and-fro'ing about buying or not buying the 'prosumer' question didnt hold much water... In part, thats because of the education I've gotten from users on the Redforum, balanced straight-talk such as Philip Blooms blog post - which I helped confirm in my mind that I was putting my money in the right place, and finally from the simple knowledge that Red has a history of producing amazing images in some films that I truely adore.
 
There are only two categories, professional and consumer products, nothing inbetween. If you use something to earn money, to make a living, if you use the equipment with the prime intent of working with it for money, then it's a professional product. If you don't use it to make a living, if you use it for yourself outside work, it's a consumer product.

What is blurry is that much of our equipment is used both private and in work. We edit other stuff in our editing suite, we shoot something for ourselves with the professional camera and so on.

But what defines a prosumer is just that it's a consumer who doesn't really work with film for a living, but still buy an expensive camera to primarily use it for themselves and as "a hobby".
It is wrong in my opinion to call the product prosumer, because prosumer isn't a definition of a kind of equipment, it's a definition of a type of user.

The product can be divided into either consumer or professional equipment, there are no other categories. Professional equipment is not just about it's price, but about what it is intended for. A camera that shoots RAW and that demand a very complex workflow to get a quality that isn't just supposed to be viewed on a home screen or computer is a professional camera because it aims for other areas then the consumer home video. An Iphone camera doesn't really have the quality to work in the same way and it's intent and marketing clearly shows that it's aimed for consumers for taking private pictures and so on.

Scarlet isn't a prosumer, neither is the new Canon or DSLR for that matter. It's professional gear, because it is primarily used in paid contracts compared to home movies. If a consumer use a DSLR for a home movie, that USER is a prosumer, not the camera.

Either way, the definition in any case is more about the user then the camera. The camera is intended for professional use, or the camera is intended for consumers, that is just intention.
Professional gear is gear intended for professionals. If consumers use them, they are prosumers.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
There are only two categories, professional and consumer products, nothing inbetween.
Click to expand...
I agree
Christoffer Glans said:
if you use the equipment with the prime intent of working with it for money, then it's a professional product. If you don't use it to make a living, if you use it for yourself outside work, it's a consumer product.
Click to expand...
I do not agree,
people use all kind of equipment working for money, following this logic HV20 is a pro camera, it is being used in a number of reality TV shows, and the other way around - my friend films his twin daughters on RED1, now he is in stage 3 for Epic; yes he's wealthy, yes he knows what he's doing, but he is not making any money with it, does it make Epic a consumer product?
Christoffer Glans said:
Professional gear is gear intended for professionals. If consumers use them, they are prosumers.
Click to expand...
gear doesn't make you and me prosumer or professional, something else does
 
Why all the categories- why would you care what anyone else is doing with their camera? We are all redusers.
 
enrique blein said:
Wouldn't there be a way to accelerate (increase the Redcode compression) in order to achieve 120 fps at 2K? (get to top speed without a girlfriend sitting next to you (5K))
Click to expand...

Hey! Back on topic- sort of. Who wants to drive a car without a girlfriend, what if your girlfriend owns the car?

Speaking of- this group seems pretty male dominated, but I've spoken with several photographers (that are female) interested in epic and scarlett- everyone better get your egos in check.
 
Processing frames takes processing (CPU) power. Compressing the frames with REDcode takes even more power. The only way that increasing the compression would allow one to achieve higher FPS is if the bottleneck was in the recording media. Scarlet has less processing power than Epic, therefore it cannot handle the same frame rates.
 
greg filipkowski said:
I thought this thread was about scarlet shipping , not you are a pro , no I'm pro and you are not, are you guys 12?
Click to expand...

The discussion was about the term "prosumer" which I think is the most overused and misunderstood term. Even camera companies market some of their cameras as prosumer. The term itself just aims at a consumer using a professional product. What a professional who uses his gear for private stuff is, I don't know, but in all essence it's a type of learning and exploring abilities later used in professional work.

I just don't think Scarlet is a "prosumer" or DSLR is "prosumer. You define the product based on the intent for which it's going to be used by the most. If someone is rich enough to buy an Epic as a home camera, then fine, but it's intent is for making professional work, stuff that earns money, makes money etc. There are very few who aren't professionals in this world who can afford and do buy Epics for personal stuff.

This was never anywhere near a discussion of who is pro or who is not, those are your words, I wrote about the definitions and how the "Prosumer" is a term that is misunderstood, that's all.
I don't know where your idea for that came from, Greg. Professional or not professional have nothing to do with what you do, it's just terms to define if you work for money or not.
I think many think "professional" equals "better then others" which isn't the case... and this is why terms and definitions are used, to define so that people aren't arguing about stuff that is unnecessary to argue about, like if someone is better then another, which this was never about, jeez
 
Can all the Scarlet users please go back to Scarlet user. The NOISE in these threads lately is DEAFENING> Cant find any useful information anymore... my post here included.

This is a Scarlet shipping thread... @ Paramon... keeping threads on track is essential... as RED changes FAST and its hard to keep up as it is.
 
FWIW - the term "prosumer" was first used and defined by Alvin Toffler about 3 decades ago. He referred to producers + consumers. The word "professional" never entered the discussion. Like I said, FWIW. :mellow:
 
Terry VerHaar said:
FWIW - the term "prosumer" was first used and defined by Alvin Toffler about 3 decades ago. He referred to producers + consumers. The word "professional" never entered the discussion. Like I said, FWIW. :mellow:
Click to expand...

I think that might have changed during these decades. I dunno, I got the impression that when the term is used nowadays it's used as a professional+consumer term, at least everyone I've worked with never refered to it being "producer". I think it changed or at least was put into another context, changing the titles combined.



Tim Whitcomb said:
Can all the Scarlet users please go back to Scarlet user. The NOISE in these threads lately is DEAFENING> Cant find any useful information anymore... my post here included.

This is a Scarlet shipping thread... @ Paramon... keeping threads on track is essential... as RED changes FAST and its hard to keep up as it is.
Click to expand...

You might have missed that it's about the announcement, about Scarlet and that "...and shipping" is just a sub-subject. So the thread is not all about the shipping.
On a second note, don't pretend that you are more important then anyone else in here, we all want to discuss Scarlet, if you want to be alone, just create a "Shipping"-topic in the Scarlet section, Red is answering as much in there as here. I think there are a lot of stressed people in here to be frankly. Just calm down.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I think that might have changed during these decades. I dunno, I got the impression that when the term is used nowadays it's used as a professional+consumer term, at least everyone I've worked with never refered to it being "producer". I think it changed or at least was put into another context, changing the titles combined.
Click to expand...

I guess my underlying point was that we might be better off dropping the "professional" reference from it, after all. :smiley:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top