Scarlet (and shipping) announcement Nov. 3rd...

[Travis Freeburg]

They could make a few spec differences between the fixed and other versions.. since they had at one time planned to do so at least, whether or not that still is the case. Then it doesn't really matter. U got R1 and R1 mx, u got Epic M and Epic X... why can't you have a cheaper fixed scarlet and more expensive ones later?

This is modular, the most expensive component is the brain (excluding some of the glass out there).

It is not outside of anything that Jim has said to suggest the possibility of an inexpensive scarlet package as well as more expensive ones.



You said you want the best camera for the price point they feel they can do. I'd be very excited to see the best camera they can make for the $6k they last priced Scarlet Fixed at. Whats wrong with my logic?

 

[Leo Sardello]

They could make a few spec differences between the fixed and other versions.. since they had at one time planned to do so at least, whether or not that still is the case. Then it doesn't really matter. U got R1 and R1 mx, u got Epic M and Epic X... why can't you have a cheaper fixed scarlet and more expensive ones later?

This is modular, the most expensive component is the brain (excluding some of the glass out there).

It is not outside of anything that Jim has said to suggest the possibility of an inexpensive scarlet package as well as more expensive ones.



You said you want the best camera for the price point they feel they can do. I'd be very excited to see the best camera they can make for the $6k they last priced Scarlet Fixed at. Whats wrong with my logic?

You are talking about a compromise for price. I don't want RED to compromise for price. I want 120fps and I want HRX and all that jazz. I want Scarlet to be the EPIC of the 2/3" world because I like that format. If RED wants to make another camera (or brain) at some other price point than what they decide Scarlet should be with whatever specs- fine by me. But I do not want the Scarlet to be less than they have previously said it will be just to make it cheaper- nor do I think they will do that.

There's nothing wrong with your logic just as there is nothing wrong with mine... but you were previously asking that the camera that I want (what we know Scarlet Fixed to be thus far) become some other camera that you want (less capable so it can be cheaper) and I would rather they introduce a new and separate line if they are going to do that.

 

[James Stone]

All those looking to purchase a used R1 will be comfortable in the $18K range for a ready to use Scarlet kit. But it will be good to have both the low end and high end Scarlet options.
I think it will be a big blow to the used R1 market.

 

[Travis Freeburg]

Fine fine, I get your point about compromise. I still think they could do it for below $10k. If they thought last year they could do it for $6k, why not still less than $10k for a fixed Scarlet? Unless, of course, they upgraded the specs to such an extent that it is now basically an R1. Which goes back to the modular thing. Anyway... If I can't buy, I'll rent, so it's all good.

 

[Jiri Bakala]

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. ..... I'd love to charge $500 a day, but that would allow others to slide into the projects I pick up. I hate the word "Pro". .....
I think its very unfair to price a camera to a higher amount to keep a particular crowd away. If you can make it an affordable price for more people that's great. I can see reasons for some not wanting soccer moms with Scarlets, but purposely pricing it to keep people away makes no sense. Allow for growth and progression.

Okay, let me put it this way:

$500/day = approx. $50/hr (yes, we do work 10hr days and often longer)
My plumber charges $70/hr
The average unionized autoworker's salary is $30/hr plus benefits

Neither my plumber, nor the average assembly line worker have to spend anywhere near the money on equipment we spent to be able to do their job. Unionized blue collar jobs have securities, benefits, pension. We are only as good as our last gig.

Those who charge less, significantly less, for video/film work are doing a disservice to those of us who do it for a living and also try to feed our families. And in extension, to yourselves, if you are hoping - or on the path - to become a professional.

I like the word 'professional'. It has a meaning. It is someone who does what they do for a living, with a passion. To have a "profession" is different than to have a "job". Professionals in general take years to learn and perfect their craft, spend untold amounts of money to have the best tools, provide value and reliability.

Owning a pencil doesn't turn anyone into a Michelangelo. But unfortunately many clients, and that includes broadcasters, tend to be cheap. And many don't recognize quality. Often, things are just "good enough". And that is an unfortunate trend, which is not isolated only to our industry.

Red decided to service the professional market and not the "soccer moms". There are plenty of choices for hobbyists. And serious hobbyists will fork out the money if they really want top quality gear.

Pro gear shouldn't be compromised. And I am sure it won't be. We are already getting amazing prices for everything Red has released up to date.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Okay, let me put it this way:

$500/day = approx. $50/hr (yes, we do work 10hr days and often longer)
My plumber charges $70/hr
The average unionized autoworker's salary is $30/hr plus benefits

Neither my plumber, nor the average assembly line worker have to spend anywhere near the money on equipment we spent to be able to do their job. Unionized blue collar jobs have securities, benefits, pension. We are only as good as our last gig.

Those who charge less, significantly less, for video/film work are doing a disservice to those of us who do it for a living and also try to feed our families. And in extension, to yourselves, if you are hoping - or on the path - to become a professional.

I like the word 'professional'. It has a meaning. It is someone who does what they do for a living, with a passion. To have a "profession" is different than to have a "job". Professionals in general take years to learn and perfect their craft, spend untold amounts of money to have the best tools, provide value and reliability.

Owning a pencil doesn't turn anyone into a Michelangelo. But unfortunately many clients, and that includes broadcasters, tend to be cheap. And many don't recognize quality. Often, things are just "good enough". And that is an unfortunate trend, which is not isolated only to our industry.

Red decided to service the professional market and not the "soccer moms". There are plenty of choices for hobbyists. And serious hobbyists will fork out the money if they really want top quality gear.

Pro gear shouldn't be compromised. And I am sure it won't be. We are already getting amazing prices for everything Red has released up to date.

Fair enough. I agree all around, well put.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

Everyone has a right to buy and use the camera how they want. If they undersell that sucks but it is their right. Most likely they will not provide as good a service and thus not be competition or eventually be financially forced to charge the proper amount.

The pro statement by Jim was clarified to include anyone with a pro mentality... so lets not try and pick and choose what is and is not pro, you want to be a professional in your art video's, new media videos, skate/snowboard/surf videos.... heck any kind of work/art it's your right.

Lets focus on ourselves and not what others should and should not be doing... aside from some healthy speculation about scarlet. 2/3" epic is my hope what we were told... as well as a epic-s down the road.

Play nice!

 

[David Rasberry]

I would expect Scarlet fixed to remain substantially the same, 3k 2/3" etc. if they release it. We don't know if that is what they are going to release on Nov. 3 though. It is possible they still can't get the lens parts they need for production and have decided to release an interchangeable lens version first rather than delay the Scarlet program any longer. That model may have changed significantly since they haven't demoed it or talked about it at all. I've seen a couple of photos here and there of Scarlet mock ups with mini-primes fitted to lightweight 3D rigs also in development, so the form factor is not likely to change much. But who knows what is happening as far as sensor, format, and other specs are concerned.
Scarlet and Epic were originally road mapped as camera lines, not just single camera models. We have Epic-M, now Epic-X, and soon to be Epic-Dragon. What might they be planning for Scarlets? Refresh... refresh...:eek6:

 

[Norbert Jalitsch]

for shure i'll sit in the office, with the mouse in my hand on november 4th 02:00 am clicking the order button as fast as ak-47 fire for being one of the first who will get his scarlet )) hopefully the wait is over !!!

 

[Travis Freeburg]

I would expect Scarlet fixed to remain substantially the same, 3k 2/3" etc. if they release it. We don't know if that is what they are going to release on Nov. 3 though. It is possible they still can't get the lens parts they need for production and have decided to release an interchangeable lens version first rather than delay the Scarlet program any longer. That model may have changed significantly since they haven't demoed it or talked about it at all. I've seen a couple of photos here and there of Scarlet mock ups with mini-primes fitted to lightweight 3D rigs also in development, so the form factor is not likely to change much. But who knows what is happening as far as sensor, format, and other specs are concerned.
Scarlet and Epic were originally road mapped as camera lines, not just single camera models. We have Epic-M, now Epic-X, and soon to be Epic-Dragon. What might they be planning for Scarlets? Refresh... refresh...:eek6:

Gah, I hope its not still delayed... Jim did say EVERYthing we wanted to know about Scarlet, right?

Pointing out that Scarlet is more like a camera Line goes along with my thinking... and possibly a wide variety of price points for different models. It just makes sense in a modular world... when you're only changing one component (the brain) you can have different price points.

Or, whatever scarlet brain(s) come out now will hopefully be replaced in just a few short years, thus rendering them that much cheaper. I say its a win all the way around for everyone... modular rocks.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

All those looking to purchase a used R1 will be comfortable in the $18K range for a ready to use Scarlet kit. But it will be good to have both the low end and high end Scarlet options.
I think it will be a big blow to the used R1 market.

Well no, someone looking to buy a full academy sized sensor cam with a PL mount (R1) recording 4K is not suddenly going to want a 2/3rds 3K fixed lens camera - these are completely different apps for mostly completely different people, doing completely different things.

A used R1 would never make sense at below the price of a new F3 - think about it, why would you ever buy an F3 if you can get an R1 cheaper (some may find reasons, like weight, but those are none too many).

 

[Dave_S]

I believe there will be few options for, us, Red fans. Options like, small specs scarlet under $5k, middle specs scarlet under$10k, and higher spec scarlet around 15K. We will be able to choose according to our budget and needs. Red is a very humble and caring company. It caters for every one's needs. There won't be any confusion after (or on)Nov 3.
Be ready with confidence, faith, and a valid credit card.

 

[Lorenzo Straight]

This is a true fact. It doesn't matter what "Red" decides to charge for "Scarlet", If one does not have the skills to produce great images with the camera, it's of no value if you paid more than a soccer mom for the camera. I've seen more than a few terrible films shot on a Red One, Arri, Panavision, you name it. Get over it.

Okay, let me put it this way:

$500/day = approx. $50/hr (yes, we do work 10hr days and often longer)
My plumber charges $70/hr
The average unionized autoworker's salary is $30/hr plus benefits

Neither my plumber, nor the average assembly line worker have to spend anywhere near the money on equipment we spent to be able to do their job. Unionized blue collar jobs have securities, benefits, pension. We are only as good as our last gig.

Those who charge less, significantly less, for video/film work are doing a disservice to those of us who do it for a living and also try to feed our families. And in extension, to yourselves, if you are hoping - or on the path - to become a professional.

I like the word 'professional'. It has a meaning. It is someone who does what they do for a living, with a passion. To have a "profession" is different than to have a "job". Professionals in general take years to learn and perfect their craft, spend untold amounts of money to have the best tools, provide value and reliability.

Owning a pencil doesn't turn anyone into a Michelangelo. But unfortunately many clients, and that includes broadcasters, tend to be cheap. And many don't recognize quality. Often, things are just "good enough". And that is an unfortunate trend, which is not isolated only to our industry.

Red decided to service the professional market and not the "soccer moms". There are plenty of choices for hobbyists. And serious hobbyists will fork out the money if they really want top quality gear.

Pro gear shouldn't be compromised. And I am sure it won't be. We are already getting amazing prices for everything Red has released up to date.

 

[Bart Allen]

I understand what u are saying but u also have to understand that some ppl should not have to pay thought the nose to get quality work, some ppl , be it musician/Indie Director/whatever, are trying to break out into the business as well and can't afford to pay allot .So I think for some Jobs your right don't undersell ur work, but for other jobs it is wise to make it affordable for the person and build a great following/Rep/Clientele.. IMO,
but I respect what u said just my way of looking at things,
ppl have helped me out to get started when they didn't have to so I will pay it forward =)

Okay, let me put it this way:

$500/day = approx. $50/hr (yes, we do work 10hr days and often longer)
My plumber charges $70/hr
The average unionized autoworker's salary is $30/hr plus benefits

Neither my plumber, nor the average assembly line worker have to spend anywhere near the money on equipment we spent to be able to do their job. Unionized blue collar jobs have securities, benefits, pension. We are only as good as our last gig.

Those who charge less, significantly less, for video/film work are doing a disservice to those of us who do it for a living and also try to feed our families. And in extension, to yourselves, if you are hoping - or on the path - to become a professional.

I like the word 'professional'. It has a meaning. It is someone who does what they do for a living, with a passion. To have a "profession" is different than to have a "job". Professionals in general take years to learn and perfect their craft, spend untold amounts of money to have the best tools, provide value and reliability.

Owning a pencil doesn't turn anyone into a Michelangelo. But unfortunately many clients, and that includes broadcasters, tend to be cheap. And many don't recognize quality. Often, things are just "good enough". And that is an unfortunate trend, which is not isolated only to our industry.

Red decided to service the professional market and not the "soccer moms". There are plenty of choices for hobbyists. And serious hobbyists will fork out the money if they really want top quality gear.

Pro gear shouldn't be compromised. And I am sure it won't be. We are already getting amazing prices for everything Red has released up to date.

 

[Patrick Kaplin]

Another possibility that I'm pretty sure hasn't been considered, what are the chances of putting the 5K S35 sensor from the Epic into the Scarlet and ensuring that it windows down to 120fps at 3K with hdrx. This would make the camera that everyone would want as there seems to be a split between those who want 2/3inch and those who want S35. Besides the frame rate limitations at 5K, this is starting to get pretty close to Epic-X turf though.

 

[Michael Millichamp]

Another possibility that I'm pretty sure hasn't been considered, what are the chances of putting the 5K S35 sensor from the Epic into the Scarlet and ensuring that it windows down to 120fps at 3K with hdrx. This would make the camera that everyone would want as there seems to be a split between those who want 2/3inch and those who want S35. Besides the frame rate limitations at 5K, this is starting to get pretty close to Epic-X turf though.

There was a Scarlet like that. It was the Scarlet s35 then it got moves to the Epic lineup, calling it the Epic Lite which eventually got a name change to the current Epic S.

 

[Patrick Kaplin]

There was a Scarlet like that. It was the Scarlet s35 then it got moves to the Epic lineup, calling it the Epic Lite which eventually got a name change to the current Epic S.

Which hasn't been mentioned on the latest roadmap and when asked about Epic-S Jim stated ''The camera you want will ship by the end of the year.'' He wouldn't tell someone looking for a S35 camera that a 2/3 inch scarlet is sufficient. Unless he plans to announce and ship the Epic-S before the end of the year along with scarlet I don't see how the current scarlet hasn't been modified to S35.

 

[David Rasberry]

I expect the 5k sensor will remain exclusive to the Epic line. Red is fully capable of making sensors in any size, resolution, and format they want. A smaller 4k sensor like the original R1 would be less expensive to produce and need less processing power behind it.
I wonder if they still can't source the lens parts for production of the fixed lens Scarlet and may release an interchangeable model first. Some of Ted's statements in the IBC interviews suggest this could be the case.

I'm thinking either 4k super 16mm cropping to 3k 2/3" or 4k sensor in the 20-25mm wide range cropping to 2k 16mm frame like the original R1. 9Mp instead of Epic's 14Mp. If they do the larger S35mm class sensor can they sell a bare brain for $6-8K as originally targeted for Scarlet S35? Seems like this would be reasonably possible leveraging the same hardware and software scaled to different levels across all models. It would bring at least R1MX level performance to a lower price range but still maintain a reasonable spread between it and Epic in features and image quality.
A practical outfitted package would be closer to F3 in price, but so what? That is still quite inexpensive for what a camera like this could do. Add the Canon electronic mount and glass for a true high performance system with convenience and functionality Sony and Panasonic do not offer at present.
The Canon electronic mount is a brilliant marketing move as it gives entry level shooters a way to invest in good lenses on a DSLR/hybrid then move into Red's DSMC line with minimal upgrade costs when funds allow. Red can leverage Canon's consumer market power to increase their own product sales as people move up.

 

[TomDannenberg]

It will be announced that Scarlet is going to be released and shipped in 3 years.
But this date can be taken seriously! *cough*

Nov 3rd?
This is the same date as Canon will reveal their new 4k cam.

 

[Antonio Forjaz]

It will be announced that Scarlet is going to be released and shipped in 3 years.
But this date can be taken seriously! *cough*

Nov 3rd?
This is the same date as Canon will reveal their new 4k cam.

Tom I think you just put your name on the shit list...just a guess