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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

SALT III- High Speed Lens Shootout "WFO" Results

Im going to toss in my $.02 here. Yes, the DOF is the same, as Jacek says. But here's where it gets interesting. Let's say that you have a 100mm medium format lens, and by medium, I mean 6x6 such as a Mamiya, Haselblad, or Zeiss Jena Let's say you use that on a camera with a less than 6x6 image sensor. So there is going to be a narrower angle of view. For fun, lets say that there is a 3x crop factor. So, using that 100mm MF lens on Camera x gives you the same angle of view as using a 300mm lens that was designed for the image sensor size of Camera x. Now that last part is important. Its important because now you have choices. You can use that 100m MF lens or the 300mm lens (made for that camera's sensor) and have the same angle of view. But, as Jacek points out, the DOF on the 100mm and the 300mm will be different (ceteris parabis). That opens up possibilities for composition that did not exist 10 years ago. Now, without changing the distance to the subject, you can swap out lenses to achieve different effects while maintaining the same angle of view. Heck, you can do that in the same scene or, you can just bring multiple sets of lenses to scouting to see which you like best.

Don't get caught up in the tech side though, Your mind should be sparkling with new creative choices this brings.

And to the previous poster who mentioned a S.A.L.T 3 or 4, using some MF lenses. I am putting together a M.A.L.T 1 (or Mid-Atlantic Lens Test), hopefully later this summer. We'll show the left-coasters how we throw down. I will be including vintage glass and only vintage glass. a Full set of MF Carl Zeiss Jena's will be part of this. Nick, I believe that you had mentioned contributing some glass. I also have Canon FDs, Super Baltars, Lomos, Lomo Speeds, Lomo Anamorphics, Arri standards, Angie zoom, and a few other odds and ends.

I am looking for a set of Kinoptics, old Schneiders, old Cookes, Kowas, SMC Takumars, and perhaps some older Nikons. Feel free to contact me if you have these, or something else I missed..
 
You can do the same today by intercutting 2/3"sensor camera with a S35 camera. Or using 2,3K on Red and (RED)full frame...
 
Interesting, DOF is actually less of my concern when shooting at 6K especially with the added flexibility of increased sensitivity on Dragon. For me though FOV is more of the thing to wrap my noggin around as I do have some sort of shooting logic I try to adhere to when it comes to focal lengths and formats. I am a fan of fast glass, but I am realist when it comes to the vast majority of shooting. I'm going to love shooting T1.3/T1.4 on Dragon at 6K. However, I think much of my shooting is going to be where much of my shooting has always been in that T2-T4 range and the deeper apertures I use for the other stuffs.

It's interesting looking back at this test now just 4 months later. Especially after going through the joys and horrors of actually purchasing a set of good glass. I haven't found my super speed solution just yet, but that wallflower in the corner who wasn't even supposed to be at this dance won my heart. I'm liking my Schneider Cine-Xenar III Primes and they will be my workhorse for some days to come.

I am still in the market for super speeds though. T1.3/T1.4 calls to me still. I have general thoughts on where I'll be landing. Haven't had a chance to really shoot a good amount of material with the Illuminas just yet either. Work to be done on that front for me still. Work that has to get done between other work no less.

I have been testing lots of glass in the last couple of months. More so for my own purchasing needs. I think this year I've used more glass in a shorter span of time than ever. Little things seem to turn into big things when comparing glass side by side. Some things have become less of a concern, however, some of the other things have become larger concerns. General and random weirdness.

Still though, image shift is a "no go" for me. I got a whole bunch of glass that shifts and that's something I've solved with the Cine-Xenars and in the process I have glass that doesn't breath at all with a lovely out of focus pillowy effect. Breathing will remain a point of contention for shooters. Some don't care, don't mind, or don't see it. I certainly do and it's been something I'm not totally in love with. Contrast I'm pretty flexible on within reason. Consistency across a set of glass is important to me, might not be so important to others.

Looking forward to the next series of grouped tests when we get around to them. Anamorphic or mid range zooms should likely be the subject at this point. These days though we're chasing a moving target as new glass will consistently be coming out for a bit.
 
Michael Panfeld said:
Im going to toss in my $.02 here. Yes, the DOF is the same, as Jacek says. But here's where it gets interesting. Let's say that you have a 100mm medium format lens, and by medium, I mean 6x6 such as a Mamiya, Haselblad, or Zeiss Jena Let's say you use that on a camera with a less than 6x6 image sensor. So there is going to be a narrower angle of view. For fun, lets say that there is a 3x crop factor. So, using that 100mm MF lens on Camera x gives you the same angle of view as using a 300mm lens that was designed for the image sensor size of Camera x. Now that last part is important. Its important because now you have choices. You can use that 100m MF lens or the 300mm lens (made for that camera's sensor) and have the same angle of view. But, as Jacek points out, the DOF on the 100mm and the 300mm will be different (ceteris parabis). That opens up possibilities for composition that did not exist 10 years ago. Now, without changing the distance to the subject, you can swap out lenses to achieve different effects while maintaining the same angle of view. Heck, you can do that in the same scene or, you can just bring multiple sets of lenses to scouting to see which you like best.

Don't get caught up in the tech side though, Your mind should be sparkling with new creative choices this brings.
Click to expand...

This is a great example and that would open up new creative possibilities... now, have you tested this specific setup ? S35 sensor with MF lenses ?

the question remains - and somebody else had mentioned this - do this MF lenses that (no matter if 100mm or 300mm) were designed to fully cover a 6x6 image sensor, have enough resolution, contrast and overall IQ in that narrow part in the middle that now is only being used ? especially b/c that narrow part is now mapped to 5K or 6K pixels...

I think somebody mentioned he uses MF Hasselblad on a S35 sensor... would be great to see IQ examples...

if the IQ breaks down because these lenses were never designed for these scenarios, they're useless (for these setups)... rather stick with FF lenses as they are designed to sufficiently map a just slightly larger sensor than S35 with 6K...

- M
 
Phil Holland said:
It's interesting looking back at this test now just 4 months later.
Click to expand...

It certainly is, we had a great time and I am thankful for the opportunity to have learned from you guys, to have the experience at RSH and Duclos lenses, building our community, sharing our findings and creating the beginning of some long lasting friendships through film and art.

I had a different take going away from our tests. My conclusion after our High Speed Shootout was that, the glass might not be the same, but any of the lenses we tested are good enough to make a feature.
It's not as important what glass you use, it's more what you use the glass for, stop testing, go make a film. A few months after the tests, we began and finished principal photography on our first feature. My roll was
supportive and my Super Speed lenses were put to good use. The film dailies I've seen were beautiful, some stunning images captured by the vision of our director, art department and our cinematography team.

Little Paradise. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2734974/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

I'll share the trailer when it goes live.

I'm so excited to go again, to make our next film, to take on a larger roll in the creative process and to continue our vision at Jumping Rock Pictures.... JUMP, Go, Do it, make it happen!
 
I agree Will, and Super Speeds have made some beautiful images over the years. It's true that at some point you kinda have to get work done.

The world I work in is often focused on the bleeding edge, 60 foot screens, and is real picky about a million other things.

Congrats on Little Paradise! Looking forward to that trailer.
 
Reviving this since I just bought a set of 24-85mm Canon CN-Es. As of now with FF being the new black, are there any comments on that and the fact that the CN-Es have a full set and the Celere HS and GL optics Leica-Rs are around?
 
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