RPAs...

[Robert Sanders]

I think the RPA's were sorta of "begrudgingly" added to the list. By that I mean that it's been pretty common around here that anamorphic is not thought of fondly (or they are wholly unnecessary when "cropping" is obviously superior - a POV I personally do not hold).

That's not to say that team RED hasn't provided a lot of anamorphic support. But, in my opinion, it's only been because they absolutely had to. They most likely thought that the anamorphic die-hards were a small enough minority that they shouldn't have to put too much R&D into the particular demands that anamorphic requires.

Somewhere along the lines that changed. It was most likely Soderberg that did it (along with other high profile DoP's who cherish the format).

Personally, I'm not interested in shooting anamorphic on the RED until the FF35 sensor is released. Without taking advantage of the entire academy frame then you're cropping out too much of the artifacting that anamorphic lenses put onto the edges of the frame - which sorta defeats the whole point of why we love the anamorphic look.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I noticed we didnt hear anything at all about the RPAs at NAB. Are they on the "backburner" so to speak? I heard a murmur that they are now 2x squeeze factor.

I think he said Fall Shawn... (or later 2010 if I recall) so it makes sense its closer to the FF35 release as that sensor will benefit more.

Plus, I think its simply an addition of another layer of glass element in the existing RPP's and not a complete rebuild.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yeah, shooting anamorphic has its ups and downs. There really is only one reason to shoot with anamorphic glass these days, and that is for the look it creates. You lose resolution by doing so and I agree with Robert above in that the FF35 sensor will have a lot more to offer the anamorphic shooter.

I really hope the lenses are a 2X squeeze. And yeah, they were MIA at NAB. Although, that did not surprise me. RED has their hands full and the RPA's were only announced a few months ago. I'm sure we'll see more info, renders, prototypes, etc.. as we get closer.

 

[JD Holloway]

Plus, I think its simply an addition of another layer of glass element in the existing RPP's and not a complete rebuild.

I wont hold my breath, but that would be sweet if it provided a quality image, abet with the obligatory anamorphic artifacts which are the whole point at 4k res....
I'm just not sure this fits REDs new modus operandi WRT pro optics. I guess we will see.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

I think he said Fall Shawn... (or later 2010 if I recall) so it makes sense its closer to the FF35 release as that sensor will benefit more.

Plus, I think its simply an addition of another layer of glass element in the existing RPP's and not a complete rebuild.

We haven't heard about Monstro in some time. I wonder what the progress is? Remember that MX is an evolution of Mysterium but Monstro is an entirely different design. If it's a different team then it might be on target, but I could also understand if the Epic delays have rippled through. Strictly from a sales perspective it seems it'd make better sense for Monstro to be out at least until summer 2011.

Personally the FF35 doesn't seem enough different in size from 5k EpicX (i'll wait about any potential DR or color differences), i'd be more interested in the 645, which I believe is the equivelent to 65mm :sifone: Which brings us back to lenses, since there are so few 65mm lenses (I've personally NEVER seen any for sale other than my converted Hasselblad), so I would be MUCH more interested in a set of 65mm primes than a set of RPAs .

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

We haven't heard about Monstro in some time. I wonder what the progress is? Remember that MX is an evolution of Mysterium but Monstro is an entirely different design. If it's a different team then it might be on target, but I could also understand if the Epic delays have rippled through. Strictly from a sales perspective it seems it'd make better sense for Monstro to be out at least until summer 2011.

I'm really looking forward to monstro, mostly the 645. Part of me wants it here tomorrow, the other part of me would like to work with that stage-2 epic I just put the deposit on first.... The future epic cameras should build on what is being developed now. So those cameras should spend less time in development. I thought I read a quote from Jim somewhere recently that said monstro would arrive toward the end of this year. Although I'm sure all that is dependent on what is happening now and how long this stage takes.

Personally the FF35 doesn't seem enough different in size from 5k EpicX (i'll wait about any potential DR or color differences), i'd be more interested in the 645, which I believe is the equivelent to 65mm :sifone: Which brings us back to lenses, since there are so few 65mm lenses (I've personally NEVER seen any for sale other than my converted Hasselblad), so I would be MUCH more interested in a set of 65mm primes than a set of RPAs .

the 645 or 6x4.5 format is much larger than 65mm motion picture format. In fact it's a lot closer to IMAX 70mm 15 perf. It's about 12% smaller than that, but if I recall, the announced Monstro sensor size was a bit smaller than full 645. Lenses to cover the format would for now come from the medium format stills world -- unless you rent IMAX glass. I have a set of Mamiya 645 lenses for my medium format kit and I can't wait to use them with the Epic 645. They are auto/manual lenses. But like 35mm stills lenses, are going to be a challenge for motion work. They also require a motor drive in the lens mount for the autofocus to work, so that is one more thing to wonder about on the upcoming Epic...

 

[Shawn Nelson]

I'm really looking forward to monstro, mostly the 645. Part of me wants it here tomorrow, the other part of me would like to work with that stage-2 epic I just put the deposit on first.... The future epic cameras should build on what is being developed now. So those cameras should spend less time in development. I thought I read a quote from Jim somewhere recently that said monstro would arrive toward the end of this year. Although I'm sure all that is dependent on what is happening now and how long this stage takes.



the 645 or 6x4.5 format is much larger than 65mm motion picture format. In fact it's a lot closer to IMAX 70mm 15 perf. It's about 12% smaller than that, but if I recall, the announced Monstro sensor size was a bit smaller than full 645. Lenses to cover the format would for now come from the medium format stills world -- unless you rent IMAX glass. I have a set of Mamiya 645 lenses for my medium format kit and I can't wait to use them with the Epic 645. They are auto/manual lenses. But like 35mm stills lenses, are going to be a challenge for motion work. They also require a motor drive in the lens mount for the autofocus to work, so that is one more thing to wonder about on the upcoming Epic...

I'm trying to find the Monstro sensor size specs and cant find them. I swore I thought that the size up from FF35 "645" Monstro is the equivalent to 70mm film (65mm)

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I'm trying to find the Monstro sensor size specs and cant find them. I swore I thought that the size up from FF35 "645" Monstro is the equivalent to 70mm film (65mm)

Some Monstro Clues make me think its closer than you think. For one, 2/3 sensor has been done for some time. M-X came fairly quickly after that.

Jim confirmed recently that RED ONE's can be still be traded for Ff35 and other Brains. here :

1. http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=582595#post582595
2. Jim also stated in post 365 here http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=587542#post587542 "Fairly soon we will list all of the available trade-in and upgrade options for RED ONE owners. Then we will ask for a decision. This program will not open-ended forever. - Jim"

So decipher the above as you will (Wont last forever, Subject to change, et al)... but to me, there is no reason to believe that Monstro sensor development is not running parallel to EPic and Scarlet, (As Monstro will sell MORE EPIC's)

but it also doesnt make sense for them to cannibalize the EPIC X by rolling Monstro out too soon, especially as they still have Scarlet to roll out behind EPIC and the economy may have bottomed, but is hardly in a strong recovery.

That's my $.0076 cents USD (2 cents adjusted for TARP and record US debt)

 

[Michael Brennan]

My view is that the days of the tank driver's apsect ratio are numbered.

High res and 3D lend themselves to immersive big screen experiences.
As for the cinema design it isn't much more expensive to double screen height.


Once the home cinema has claimed the horizontal real estate in the home there is no place to go but up. The next logical progression after 3d widescreen is 3d big screen. Give it 10-15 years.


Mike Brennan

 

[G Lap]

I'm trying to find the Monstro sensor size specs and cant find them. I swore I thought that the size up from FF35 "645" Monstro is the equivalent to 70mm film (65mm)

This information is spread across the site in various threads. It might be useful as a rough ‘at a glance’ guide (with the caveat that some figures are approximate, not all source posts are RED official and everything is subject to change......of course).

FF35 - 6000 x 4000 - 6k
36x24mm Monstro
native 3:2 aspect ratio, approx 43mm diagonal,
6 micron pixels, approx: 24mpx, 0 crop factor. (FF DSLR)

645 - 9334 x 7000 - 9k
56 x 42mm Monstro
native 4:3 aspect ratio, approx 70mm diagonal,
approx: 65 mpx, 0.6 crop factor.

617 - 28000 x 9334 - 28k
168 x 56mm Monstro
native 3:1 aspect ratio, approx 177mm diagonal,
approx: 261 mpx, 0.25 crop factor.

 

[Matt Garrett]

Guys lets keep it on topic here.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

This information is spread across the site in various threads. It might be useful as a rough ‘at a glance’ guide (with the caveat that some figures are approximate, not all source posts are RED official and everything is subject to change......of course).

FF35 - 6000 x 4000 - 6k
36x24mm Monstro
native 3:2 aspect ratio, approx 43mm diagonal,
6 micron pixels, approx: 24mpx, 0 crop factor. (FF DSLR)

645 - 9334 x 7000 - 9k
56 x 42mm Monstro
native 4:3 aspect ratio, approx 70mm diagonal,
approx: 65 mpx, 0.6 crop factor.

617 - 28000 x 9334 - 28k
168 x 56mm Monstro
native 3:1 aspect ratio, approx 177mm diagonal,
approx: 261 mpx, 0.25 crop factor.

Thanks! Now 65/70mm film is 52.48 by 23.01 mm according to wikipedia. Once you crop Monstro to a 2.2x1 ratio, you're just slightly larger than 65mm. But IMAX 15-perf is 70.41 by 52.63 mm. So the Red 645 cropped is going to be much more of a 65mm setup.

But, that's cropping a lot. So to bring it back on topic, I'd say that if the RPAs had a giant circle and could do a 2x squeeze on the full 645 frame, well then, now we'd have some epic lenses

 

[Lorenzo Straight]

Don't know how I missed this one. Glad to read about these.

 

[R.ChilD]

thanks Jim for all your work and please consider the 24mm "seriously" as well, Im in the midst of purchasing lomos but will still consider the RPAs once they come out to have a set of new lenses

 

[C. Jagan Mohan]

Wonder how they will work out with Red's sensor aspects and resolution distribution.

Pretty awesome.

That's very simple. 2.35:1 ratio image will be recorded on REDs native 2K or 4K resolutions aspect ratio.

 

[C. Jagan Mohan]

Its wonderful thing. We in India shoot all our films (Any language) in Anamorphic only (100%).

 

[Rob Ruffo]

That's very simple. 2.35:1 ratio image will be recorded on REDs native 2K or 4K resolutions aspect ratio.

Yes, anamorphics "squeeze" a wider field of view onto a normally proportioned piece of film/sensor. That's why they have that cool look in the bokeh.

 

[Jean Iona]

Its wonderful thing. We in India shoot all our films (Any language) in Anamorphic only (100%).

Anamorphic or not, they still suck bigtime!

...................................................................................

Anyway, here's the thing: how about finishing work on that Scarlet camera and only after that work on other stuff...

 

[Vigna Raajan]

Its wonderful thing. We in India shoot all our films (Any language) in Anamorphic only (100%).

I think the ratio has changed drastically. Now, only about 20-30% films are being shot in Anamorphic. Or atleast that is the situation with Tamil films.

 

[Vigna Raajan]

Anamorphic or not, they still suck bigtime!

...................................................................................

Anyway, here's the thing: how about finishing work on that Scarlet camera and only after that work on other stuff...

May I know what Indian films you have seen till now?