RONIN-M or HELIX-JNR ?

[Ketch Rossi]

Jake,

Its a matter of preference here, I have great respect for what they have done with the Helix, it's just not for me, I actually wanted to like it, but I don't like it as much as I like the Ronin, or Movi type of Hand Held Gimbal, its just not for me, it doesn't fit with how I work, and its design while different and unique in some aspects, it simply does not fulfill my way of how I like to handle a Gimbal.

The way it operates in any mode, the way you need to handle it, and the way it controls the camera, I just simply think that the standard Gimbal is just better.

Then again, this is my opinion and we each are entitle in our won, based on what and how we like to work.

And like to repeat myself here saying that I do believe that the Helix is a great tool, different very much so form any other Hand Held Gimbal in the style of the Ronin, Movi and others, but you either will love it or hate it, as the way you hold it and control the camera movements is different, very different, and I simply just prefer the Ronin to it hands down, because it lets me work it exactly how I like, the modality for Briefcase mode and inverted mode are some what weird on the Helix for me, and I don't like that either, balancing is different, not better or worst, just different, the way the camera seats and the way the handles are positioned and move, is also not of my liking on the Helix, again, to each it's own, I really hate Steady Cams and many love them and use them, I hate any support system that has a Cable hanging form above my head, yet some people love them and use them regularly, were I would absolutely prefer to use an Exoskeleton type rig to support extra weight were needed before I was ever to use either a Steady Cam or anything else for body support (I know of course that the Steady Cam does much more then just support,) talking about support for a Gimbal.

Any ways, both are great tools, choose what you like, but I as always I suggest you try both before making a choice.

 

[Joe Bigornia]

Are there any promising videos on the Helix Jr?

The ones that I have seen had shakes on it. Maybe I am picking the wrong videos? If there are any great links, please post them. I am also considering buying a Ronin-M unless I can be persuaded by great videos of the Helix Jr. Thank you

 

[Mark Andersen]

I went with Helix and I'm glad I did although mine had a ghost in the machine and I had to send it back to the factory for a check up, it came back working great. It's small, easy to hold, the lens is between your hands (and it's narrow) which means you can tuck your elbows agains your body and this makes it much more comfortable. My custom case for traveling is ridiculously small. It balances pretty fast once you've done it a few times. I love using it with a hands free Segway, I get really nice stuff that way.

 

[Uros Zuraj]

Sorry Ketch but you just went from "Ronin is much better in setup, how it works,... then anything" to "its a personal thing". Cant really do that its not a good critic of any gear, but ill wait till the review.
And I dont really see what you cant do with Helix that you can with Ronin... do you know you can get top handle,...
cheers

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Well Uros,

At the end of the day my personal choices are based on my opinion of what is best to use for any given job, so to me there are one and the same if put under the scope, so I guess not the best wording on my end, but that is what I mean, the Ronin is a much better Gimbal then the Helix.

That is my personal opinion based on my use of the gear and on how it works, and while personal, it is what I think of it, and this is my advise to others interested in one vs. the other that the Ronin is better, but I also am advising to try both.

In this community we have a large number of users for both, a much larger user base for the Ronin no question, but I am not stating that because number of users alone makes the Ronin the better Hand Held Gimbal, I am saying its better because of what I stated in previous posts in several threads.

At last my review will be done and up and I'll go more in depth of why I prefer and think the Ronin is better.

Then each user can make their decision based on what they see, read, and hopefully try out the units before buying.

My intent is to give an honest opinion based always on personal experience, what this means is that I don;t give opinion based on what I have heard or read some were else about a specific product, but only give informed opinions based on my own personal and professional view of the gear in question.

Forgive my wording as I just came back form Italy after 4 years leaving there, and unfortunately my English always suffers when I am away for long periods of times, but I always mean what I say, even if is not written in the best way.

This is why for important documents and essays I am to write for our non-Profit I am writing and triple checking everything I write and even look up some words for extra security that they mean what I want them to, and not be misunderstood.

Here on the forum, I don't fill the need to go that far, but I actually appreciate you pointing this out, so that I coddle fortify my position and letting you and any one else here know that what I wrote is what I mean on both a personal and professional level which to men is one and the same.

And yes of course I know you can get a top hand for the Helix, it's just that it is a system that operates and fills completely different, I don't like how it does so and prefer the Ronin to it in every way, as simple as that.

 

[Joe Bigornia]

I just found this impressive video. I am leaning again towards the Helix Jr.

 

[steve green]

With all the back and forth on the Ronin and the Helix I thought I'd put in my two cents......

Although I have no experience with the Ronin, I have used the Movi M10 and M15 quite a bit.

The Helix has been a joy to use. Once you spend time and get familiar with balancing the unit it's incredibly intuitive when comparing it to traditional handheld camera rigs. When you pick up the Helix it feels almost like any handheld camera. The lens is positioned where it should be, between your hands, not a foot below. Having the ability to tilt just by moving the right handle, and not having to move both arms like other gimbals, is a game changer. Also, being able to set it down on any flat surface, just like we've always done when shooting handheld, is another plus.

Having said that, another point certainly worth mentioning is the team of dedicated people at Letus. Their accessibility and customer service is beyond any I've experienced at any company in any field.

 

[Daniel Kelly Brown]

I been rocking the normal helix for awhile now. Its a really well built gimbal and can be packed up very small. Here is a bit of footage I shot for Helix skiing with the gimbal:

 

[Ash Worth]

There's resistance to the Helix because it's unlike the other designs, once you use both it makes more sense. Personally I would be wary of opinions of sponsored users, for this reason companies lend gear for reviews not give, not sure what DJI was thinking in this case.

 

[Björn Benckert]

To me the Helix as the only one using counter wieghts is the only one out there that consider lens position as a factor, which is really strange to me. Still it´s quite tight and some times impossible to get the lens nodal in the gimbal nodal for larger cameras. But that´s where the money is at and no body even talks about it. A gimbal with the correct nodal settings is so much superior to a gimbal that is not.

When the nodalpoint of lens and gimbal is aligned you will have zero parallax shift from the gimbal movement. The other guys are not even striving for this, like the dji that has the whole side offset stuff and so on but no real built in way to counter weight to get the lens in the dead center. I also find it quite odd that nobody in any of these tests and tutorial videos etc even mention this factor.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

There's resistance to the Helix because it's unlike the other designs, once you use both it makes more sense. Personally I would be wary of opinions of sponsored users, for this reason companies lend gear for reviews not give, not sure what DJI was thinking in this case.

I have been sponsored for years, many years before REDUSER ever existed, by very big Industry Names in the Photography and Cinematography Industry, just that before I was not in forums to let any one know I was...

Now has been different, and in truth I didn't even need to make it public that I am sponsored by any number of Manufacturers, but I did for the sake of clarity and full disclosure...

There is absolutely nothing wrong in the Sponsor way of things, what only matters at the end is the "INTEGRITY" of the end user and publisher and opinions given.

I have always given the good and the bad of any given piece of gear I have ever used, and I will continue to do so with the same honesty.

Read me or don't its up to you, but don't ever put my "INTEGRITY" in question, I am and always have been a MAN of HONOR and will be till the day I die, so take your attacks some were else.


BTW: I think I would really enjoy meeting you in person one of this days... And find out in person why is it that you always find ways to attack me. It is YOU and an other 5 member of this community that seem always ready to attack me... Really would love to have you guys in a room with me... So to truly understand why, what I have done to you, and clear it all out. Really, I mean it.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

To me the Helix as the only one using counter wieghts is the only one out there that consider lens position as a factor, which is really strange to me. Still it´s quite tight and some times impossible to get the lens nodal in the gimbal nodal for larger cameras. But that´s where the money is at and no body even talks about it. A gimbal with the correct nodal settings is so much superior to a gimbal that is not.

When the nodalpoint of lens and gimbal is aligned you will have zero parallax shift from the gimbal movement. The other guys are not even striving for this, like the dji that has the whole side offset stuff and so on but no real built in way to counter weight to get the lens in the dead center. I also find it quite odd that nobody in any of these tests and tutorial videos etc even mention this factor.

I understand what the Helix does and how it does it, and I applaud their innovation and thinking behind their design, but as I repeated several times, it simply does not fall favorably in my way of working and using a hand held stabilization system.

People must accept that not all gear is for every one the same, and that is not all bad, there are choices and to each it's own.

Now, as far as the way it works and the fact that can bring the lens closer to it's central point of Nodal Point, this is only important and critical when doing Panoramas type shots for Stitching, I have never used any gear in my years for any type of photography/Cinematography that required me to pay attention to the Nodal Point, other than when taking Panoramas and in need of Stitching.

I am not surely saying that it is a bad thing to have, but it is not at all necessary nor does it give it an edge vs. andy other Hand Held Gimbals because of it.

 

[Daniel Kelly Brown]

I would say if you need a nice run and gun gimbal that can pack up small and don't need wireless focus attached to your gimbal the helix is a great choice. If you need wireless ff save up for movi or get one used, its still leagues above all other gimbals out there in my opinion.

 

[Ash Worth]

Edit. Sincere apologies for disrupting this thread.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Don't talk about integrity, when starting a non-profit film school, supposedly for the less fortunate, you are more focussed on spending donations on a cool, expensive vehicle for Ketch to drive around in than getting a simple vehicle that is cost effective and efficient. If you were committed to this project you could start out of the back of your SUV, put the money in basic equipment that students can learn from.

FIRST: Apologies for the temporary involuntary provoked Highjacking of the thread... But I just need to respond to this, then I'm off to better things...

I talk about integrity because my entire life has been based on since childhood, and all my actions have been made always with it in mind before all things. The creation of the non-profit bares my name to show that is not an excuse to do wrong doing, but I have put my name on it "KETCH ROSSi HUMANiTAS" even so the actual school is called "TACTiCAL FiLM INSTiTUTE" because I believe blindly and unconditionally in what I do and most importantly who I do it for and why.

You surely can not be in a position to attack me on a project you know nothing of other the having seen a post of mine to call for assistant to help out designing a 3D model of what I am signing as a Mobile Production Vehicle, which is to be used while the Facilities get built and later to connote on with the work on location across the US.

I can surely do things in the most simple of ways, on the cheapest Vehicle possible and using the cheapest film equipment possible, and also find the cheapest building available...

But I am surely NOT going to do that, we will be offering absolutely TOP technologically advanced equipment in a state of the Art facility with top teachers and professional form our Industry to give the absolute best possible Film Education to our students and have the best of the best in all aspect of our organization, because this is what I want, because this is how I believe we will make the difference in the world, for both bringing Dreams to life of Aspiring Filmmakers form allover the world that can't afford to pay for their film school, and because I firmly believe that is never the best way to do things as cheap as possible when saying that you are doing for free or to help others when you are doing it with non-profit Public Charity organization.

It means that you have a responsibility to do what you promised in your Mission Statement and that you are responsible for those promises and need to make good, it does not matter how much it cost, if those going in and supporting you know this form the start, it only natters the results you can achieve and the good you can do with it.

Mine is a genuine will to do good, one I have always have had in my heart, and that in this past years I have worked hard to obtain, and now that at last the IRS has granted us a 501c3 status I am finally taking it to become a reality, I know there will always be those like you, negative and ready to attack before they even get to see anything done, I am completely ok with it, because those like you don't matter at all, what it matters is the positive inputs we get at every single meeting and at every time we mention what we are working to do, at the end what it matters is that I do the best I can to bring our non-profit to do its bets to make our world a better place, and the tools I'll put to use to get there will only be decided based upon the possibilities afforded, and if we can afford to have the best the better, because I know we can do better with the best then we can ever do with mediocre or cheap stuff.


Btw, I have been using my own resources in any way I could, helped out any one I could, with the giving of FREE gear, landed a hand and my equipment my car my house and at times when was possible with money to help others.

And as far as using my own SUV... I have been doing just that for the past 8 years from USA to Europe and now back to USA... Now is time to take it to the next level.

 

[Stefan Scherperel]

I would say if you need a nice run and gun gimbal that can pack up small and don't need wireless focus attached to your gimbal the helix is a great choice. If you need wireless ff save up for movi or get one used, its still leagues above all other gimbals out there in my opinion.

I don't get this reasoning at all. Why would the Helix be a good choice only without a wireless focus? The helix is the only gimbal out there right now that can (WIRELESSLY) power (Through a slip ring) the Camera, wireless focus, wireless video out and all with a battery that will last 30-40 min. The helix can also handle a camera load up to 16lbs (and no camera battery needs to be factored into that weight). So what is your reasoning behind this statement? I use my helix with not only wireless focus, wireless HDMI but a mattebox and filters as well...
I honestly think there is a sincere lack of actual experience that people have had with the Helix. So much info out there about what it can and can't handle when many people are just speculating. Letus did win best in show at NAB this year for the Helix. I'm imagining they won that for a reason.

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

Stefan, are there any "gotcha's" to look out for with the helix? What do you think the total length of the cam can be?

 

[Stefan Scherperel]

The Helix center point for balance can slide back quite a bit. With a mattebox and a lightweight lens I find that I could still slide the camera back quite a bit more. However, the shorter you can keep the camera the better the image can be. This is the one design issue with the helix in that it has the potential to introduce (footsteps) on longer camera setups. If you are using a Steadicam arm or another stabilizer however, this would help to offset this issue. You can certainly get longer camera setups on the helix vs most other stabilizers because there is nothing to bump into on the back side of the camera, plus you don't need to have a battery mounted to the camera, which can help. You can also counterweight the back of the Helix if you find that the front of your camera is too heavy, so there are lots of options. I've been running a Dragon setup, with lens, mattebox, wirless FF, Paralynx Arrow that comes in at about 13.5lbs (no battery weight) and have not had an issue.

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

Great. Are you using any support, exo or ezrig?

 

[Eric Santiago]

I love the Helix and would have liked to take a chance on the Junior but after putting the price together on the Junior at Helix site it just doesn't sit well with me when your so close to $4K USD.

IMHO of course.