Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Request for 3dl LUT's in REDCINE...

Björn Benckert

Björn Benckert

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
7,423
Reaction score
74
Points
48
Age
52
Website
www.syndicate.se
It would be great if we could import 3dl luts in redcine. I got most of Kodaks emulsion LUT's and even though I find it nicer to apply them to RED Log film source in the end of the post process I think alot of people would very much enjoy having the possibility to apply these kind of luts directly in RCXP or atleast take a sneak peak how it will look with a sertain film stock. I cant think of a more easy way to get to a nice look. Next step would be to get 3dl Luts import in camera to see the material with a real film stock emulsion allready on the touch screen and ref monitor would be great. All the Kodak genesis and Cineon LUT's are quite easy to get and they make LOG look like film better than anything else.
 
May I ask - where do you get them?
 
Brandon J.F. said:
Sure does look like film. What did you use to add the grain?
Click to expand...

"Do not try to bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... there is no spoon."

or, simply there is no grain added only a combination of low light, poor blackshading and a bit of post sharpening and not so good H.246 compressions setting in the flame output. I kind of like the noise that combo causes.
 
Björn Benckert said:
...I think alot of people would very much enjoy having the possibility to apply these kind of luts directly in RCXP or atleast take a sneak peak how it will look with a sertain film stock...
Click to expand...

This can be achieved by using the BMD HDLink between the HD-SDI output and the monitor. It is capable to read the ".3dl" LUT version of any film emulsion.
 
Just visiting this thread - where do you get fujifilm and kodak luts? Thanks! Would really be great to get them in Red Cine-X
 
Hey Edward

You can get these LUT's and more at www.looklabs.net. We will be releaseing a new SpeedLook in the next couple of weeks called SL-3535 Universal. Like us on facebook to get the latest product info.

Jeff
 
Jeff August said:
Hey Edward

You can get these LUT's and more at www.looklabs.net. We will be releaseing a new SpeedLook in the next couple of weeks called SL-3535 Universal. Like us on facebook to get the latest product info.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Hey Jeff,
Loving your SpeedLooks. Been using them for a while and very pleased. As for the new look, what are the image characteristics of the 3535 Universal? I'm a big fan of the 3500 Clean Fuji.

Here's a couple threads with SpeedLooks examples that you might want to check out:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?87940-SpeedLooks-for-Speedgrade-Resolve-Scracth-Lustre-FilmLight

This is a really long thread that has multiple users posting their SpeedLooks samples towards the later half:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?92176-skintone
 
RED please, give us the ability to upload 3D LUT in REDCINE-x and on our beautiful RED :)
 
Björn Benckert said:
I cant think of a more easy way to get to a nice look.
Click to expand...
The best way I can think of is to employ an experienced colorist to give you this look. The demo for LookLabs points out, "we can get you to a starting point without you having to be a rocket scientist." My response to that is, sometimes you need to hire a rocket scientist to get the best results.

The problem with throwing one of these pre-fab looks at different kinds of material is, the LUTs don't necessarily react in a linear, predictable way. A human can take that into consideration and manually tweak the look you want.

I think there are genuine benefits of certain kinds of special looks -- like Sapphire Effects and so on -- which are truly things you can't do in color-correction, like adding reflections and lens flares and stuff like that. Those are genuinely useful. But these so-called emulation LUTs are guesswork to me. I worked for Kodak in the early 2000s when their original 3D LUTs were developed by brilliant color scientists like Mitch Bogdanovich and Peter Postma, and even there, my observation was that there was a lot of trial and error involved, and the transforming LUTs didn't always work. There's a degree of guesswork involved, especially when the material involved was shot badly (or at least out of spec).

There is no easy "one size fits all" solution for things like this.
 
Marc Wielage said:
The best way I can think of is to employ an experienced colorist to give you this look. The demo for LookLabs points out, "we can get you to a starting point without you having to be a rocket scientist." My response to that is, sometimes you need to hire a rocket scientist to get the best results.

The problem with throwing one of these pre-fab looks at different kinds of material is, the LUTs don't necessarily react in a linear, predictable way. A human can take that into consideration and manually tweak the look you want.

I think there are genuine benefits of certain kinds of special looks -- like Sapphire Effects and so on -- which are truly things you can't do in color-correction, like adding reflections and lens flares and stuff like that. Those are genuinely useful. But these so-called emulation LUTs are guesswork to me. I worked for Kodak in the early 2000s when their original 3D LUTs were developed by brilliant color scientists like Mitch Bogdanovich and Peter Postma, and even there, my observation was that there was a lot of trial and error involved, and the transforming LUTs didn't always work. There's a degree of guesswork involved, especially when the material involved was shot badly (or at least out of spec).

There is no easy "one size fits all" solution for things like this.
Click to expand...

Yes of course you can hire a colorist. But this is something that has been done trough all times of teleeciine. A colorist creates a 3D lut and then all the rushes goes trough the telecine with a best light and the lut applied at night done by the colorists assistant. Using 3D luts is an easy way to get towards where you want to be. And if the DP wants a INR look or such it's not that difficult for the DIT to use such lut on top of everything and dial in the basic values underneath that lut so all rushes can look somewhat as wanted. Red cine is built for taken care of rushes and it's sad that it does not have the ability to take luts and 3D luts.

I do not in any way see a feature that allows using luts in RCXP collide with having a colorist working. And for most there will not be any colorist involved and then those print lut's will give results that you could not reach without them, and if used properly they would be a great help for many.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Using 3D luts is an easy way to get towards where you want to be.
Click to expand...
I agree that it's an easy way. But it's neither the best nor the most accurate way to go. And I again say the flaw with these fake-Look LUTs is that their effects is highly dependent on the way the material is shot and monitored.
 
Marc Wielage said:
I agree that it's an easy way. But it's neither the best nor the most accurate way to go. And I again say the flaw with these fake-Look LUTs is that their effects is highly dependent on the way the material is shot and monitored.
Click to expand...


How do you mean they are fake... They are made by Kodak to use as a digital representation of how a negative will look when it gets printed on a certain film stock. I think any DoP if possible back in the days could have an option to view any kind of representation of how his shot would look after a certain labprocess already on set then he would be glad to have it. 3D lut's goes far further than what you can do with curves etc in RCXP and such as they remap the in a 3D color space. Still they are a very light process and should not be hard to implement so they could be applied just like the "looks" folders we can work with now.

Find it hard to see a reason for not wanting to have such option. And saying it's fake is the same as saying redgamma3 is fake or redlog film or any other color setting. The true raw output form the sensor is a black and white checkerboard but thats not really what we want to see so all kinds of improvements from there is welcome to me :)
 
FWIW, I'm not expecting to see this kind of functionality in RCX-Pro. OTOH, once RED gets the new FW for Dragon OPLF2 released and into the SDK then 3rd party apps might sort this. Assimilate Scratch, BMD Resolve, etc are aimed at facilitating myriad pipelines with potentially several LUTs inserted where desired.

If RED decides to support 3D LUT insertion, the ASC CDL, IIF/ACES, etc in their free tools that would be handy - but I doubt its near the top of their priority list ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
One more vote for 3D-LUT import in RCX and in camera. I can clearly see situations where that would become handy !
Even more now that Filmconvert is able to export 3D-LUTs. How cool would it be to be able to preview these looks in camera ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top