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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDWideGamutRGB and Log3G10

Great to hear!..


Graeme Nattress said:
Yes Phil! One of the goals of IPP2 was to simplify things. Although there's a lot of extra power in the full IPP2, it would be no good if it was also too complex to use so rather than duplicate everything the original processing did, I actively worked to strip out unnecessary complexity. Gains are gone to be replaced in functionality by the grading section. FLUT, exposure and brightness are gone to be replaced by a single "exposure adjust" control. I don't think there's much you can't do in IPP2 that you could do before, but the name or the place where it's done will be a little different.

Other simplifications include use of industry standard colour spaces and output gamma functions where applicable, so you know that if you see something that looks like a proper spec, what you get actually adheres to that spec and works just as you'd expect.

More of this will become aparrent as we work towards the full IPP2 implementation, and I'll be here to help you all get the best out of it.

Graeme
Click to expand...
 
I have a project to grade in resolve right at this moment which would be nice to try out some of the new stuff. How would I go about setting up the grade in Resolve to make use of the full potential (to the extent we can do it with Resolve right now) of the new color science? Is there any updated output LUTs (709)? Would be nice to try this out since the material I'm grading has a lot of tungsten/daylight mixed lighting (doc style), which is a bit of a pain to balance up.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I have a project to grade in resolve right at this moment which would be nice to try out some of the new stuff. How would I go about setting up the grade in Resolve to make use of the full potential (to the extent we can do it with Resolve right now) of the new color science? Is there any updated output LUTs (709)? Would be nice to try this out since the material I'm grading has a lot of tungsten/daylight mixed lighting (doc style), which is a bit of a pain to balance up.
Click to expand...

So set your decode in Resolve to RWG/Log3G10 and I think you have those LUTs from me, right?

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
So set your decode in Resolve to RWG/Log3G10 and I think you have those LUTs from me, right?

Graeme
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have the nov12_Reduced Saturation 0p75_FULL.cube, which works great since I felt the regular ones had a bit too much saturation, but if there's been more improved work and tweaks on the LUTs that would be awesome :)
Will there be any official standardized LUT's from you guys based off these work in progress ones? Since the RWG/LOG3G10 really only puts everything from the Red sensor into a workable log area, new color science improvements are really focused on how the output LUT transforms that base-look into different outputs, right? Meaning future improvements and tweaks to the color science would be more easily done by just updating or having a range of output LUTs based off different workflows.
 
That's right - future improvements would be in the output side of things for now, but I could very well revisit the production of the RWG data in the future too.

Graeme
 
I'm getting asked a bunch either how or for the IPP2 Preview LUT. Here's a short explanation to get people started.

Download this IPP2 Preview LUT (this is RED's official preview LUT):

http://www.phfx.com/temp/reduser/phfx_RED_RWGRGBwithLG310_IPP2PreviewLUT.zip

Instructions for REDCINE-X PRO:



For 3rd Party Applications, do the same as above and apply the 3D LUT via whatever program you are using.
 
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Phil Holland said:
I'm getting asked a bunch either how or for the IPP2 Preview LUT. Here's a short explanation to get people started.

Download this IPP2 Preview LUT:

http://www.phfx.com/temp/reduser/phfx_RED_RWGRGBwithLG310_IPP2PreviewLUT.zip

Instructions for REDCINE-X PRO:



For 3rd Party Applications, do the same as above and apply the 3D LUT via whatever program you are using.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, Redcine-X (release version) creates color banding when using output LUT and RWG/LOG3G10. Did so with other LUTs as well, but I've yet to try yours out in Resolve. Gonna check it out soon. :thumbup1:
 
Graeme Nattress said:
That's right - future improvements would be in the output side of things for now, but I could very well revisit the production of the RWG data in the future too.

Graeme
Click to expand...

Does that mean there'll be sensor specific versions of the IPP2 conversion LUTs (or are all of the sensor differences handled in the RWG/L3G10 conversion -- essentially putting all RED cameras at the same starting point [just with reduced DR/colour accuracy depending on the age of the sensor])?
 
Mike P. said:
Does that mean there'll be sensor specific versions of the IPP2 conversion LUTs (or are all of the sensor differences handled in the RWG/L3G10 conversion -- essentially putting all RED cameras at the same starting point [just with reduced DR/colour accuracy depending on the age of the sensor])?
Click to expand...

Hard to speculate, but I'm always thinking on ways to improve things. I think what would happen is the RWG/Log3G10 stage would stay constant and I'd just figure better ways of mapping sensor data into that container. By better I mean more accurate. But for now, results are good, feedback is excellent and there's work to do to get the full version in camera and SDK.

Graeme
 
So original RC-X + LUT is equivalent to IPP2 Preview + settings. The big difference being that the full IPP2 will have more options, although they'll all boil down to a LUT for easy post workflows.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
So original RC-X + LUT is equivalent to IPP2 Preview + settings. The big difference being that the full IPP2 will have more options, although they'll all boil down to a LUT for easy post workflows.

Graeme
Click to expand...

Question Graeme how much was updated of the color science for helium in the last firmware. Is it me imagine things or is it simply something else than from before? I don't talk about the IPP2 things but before that before the image goes RWGRGB it improved, no?

Was trying to make the camera trip this weekend after updating the firmware, and I simply could not recreate most of the oddities I been seeing earlier. But not sure some of the previous tests I been playing with was not me shooting them and different lenses etc. But simply it all feels very good now so just wanted to check.
 
Colour science and firmware always go hand-in-hand together. With this release there was work done throughout the imaging pipeline - colour science, firmware and IPP2.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Hard to speculate, but I'm always thinking on ways to improve things. I think what would happen is the RWG/Log3G10 stage would stay constant and I'd just figure better ways of mapping sensor data into that container. By better I mean more accurate. But for now, results are good, feedback is excellent and there's work to do to get the full version in camera and SDK.

Graeme
Click to expand...

I see... And I understand that priority goes to the latest/greatest (re: helium), I just like the idea of getting something for nothing (which has always been the beauty of redcode)... At the very least the workflow/ease-of-post benefits sounds dynamite and will work the same across the sensors/cameras.

Oh, and another question; what does the IPP2 preview camera firmware do for pre-helium cameras (since they aren't getting RWG/L3G10 in-camera)?
 
So yes, the workflow, image and post benefits go to all cameras. As for what the firmware does to other cameras - I know no more than what is listed in the release notes.

Graeme
 
Mike P. said:
Oh, and another question; what does the IPP2 preview camera firmware do for pre-helium cameras (since they aren't getting RWG/L3G10 in-camera)?
Click to expand...

I thought the older cameras would get RWG and 3G10 with a firmware update. Even if they don't support the IPP2 processing or internal 3d LUT, you could have an external monitor with a 3d lut...
 
jussi rovanpera said:
I thought the older cameras would get RWG and 3G10 with a firmware update. Even if they don't support the IPP2 processing or internal 3d LUT, you could have an external monitor with a 3d lut...
Click to expand...

Oh yeah? I thought IPP2 was entirely in post though (not in-camera, but more a RCXp image processing path...) I'm sure this is all semantics and it'll get sorted when it's rolled-out in full, I'm just trying to get a glimpse of what to expect from a dailies/1st-light perspective.
 
Having it in camera is nice but it´s a bit like haivng redlogfilm in camera you dont use it much there its more a thing when grading. Same goes for RWGRGB.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Having it in camera is nice but it´s a bit like haivng redlogfilm in camera you dont use it much there its more a thing when grading. Same goes for RWGRGB.
Click to expand...

Yeah exactly, that's kinda why I'm wondering what the "preview firmwares" were for (particularly for older MX/Dragon cameras)...
 
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