REDUSER used to be so BAD ASS.

[Bob Gundu]

How will having a paid subscription to RedUser change anything? Money is not the problem. I'm amazed at how many young kids can afford a RED. They can certainly buy a subscription. Why not have a system where you can vote on the quality of the post. If it's useful, click on the like button. A silly post, gets a thumbs down. The ability to search higher rates posts will be useful. Enough dislikes and the moderator can remove it. Perhaps people will think twice about posting a useless post.

 

[Joseph Hutson]

I agree with what someone said earlier. Perhaps the shotgun isn't best for this situation. Perhaps a few riflemen might be? I enjoy answering new people's questions, but I also would rather have them in one place instead of spread out around the forum.

The membership and activity have greatly increased in the last 6 months...so perhaps more moderation might be a help? There are seemingly so many threads in the wrong sub-forum. The unboxing videos should be in "Unboxing". The gear in a city that is available should not be in Jobs / Equipment For Hire. Not in EPIC or SCARLET Subforums.


Paid membership isn't the real solution. People who bought RED's in the last year can afford to pay $200 and create the same problem you bring up. People who don't own but work on RED productions on a daily basis will have a lot more knowledge but have no reason to pay money to contribute.

Perhaps the "Jobs / Equipment For Hire" could even be broken up into 3 sections. (1) People with gear to rent (2) People looking for gear to rent (3) Jobs. And while we are at it, RED stuff for sale could even be broken up into 2 sections. (1) Official RED Gear for Sale (2) Gear for Sale

Just some ideas on how to make REDuser a greater place.

P.S. These are great ideas Big Lu. David Battistella and I have been talking about this for quite a while. He's one of many who have left as a result of what's been happening lately...

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

remember at one point in time you weren't that knowledgeable either. i agree with you somewhat. i crused this form for years before i actually made a profile and learned most of the things i need to know just buy reading others threads. and i still do everyday. but there is a such thing as evolution. things do change sometimes for the better. just keep this in mind ....

I don't write plain stupid posts (at least I think so), I read 10 times more than I write, always trying to find a solution for any problem by myself before crying out loud on the board.

I want to learn as much as possible, I want to hear what wise and experienced people (those who you listed in your first post) have to say.

I get your frustration, even I can feel that the amount of unnecessary posts has increased, but I don't get the "elitism" vibe that is a part of your suggestion.

I say let this forum continue to evolve naturally, without interference, without discriminatory ideas of treating aspiring individuals and us humble Scarlet owners like children of a lesser god; that would really sour things for many of us. The idea of having to pay to share in the wonders of this journey we're all on, is appalling to me. I was under the impression that this place is a gift for us all to share,; a place where we, the yet unsophisticated, uneducated, inexperienced and unschooled, can learn, each at his/her own pace. I mean, anyone here is free to ahead and create a different forum where only "la creme de la creme" will be allowed to exercise the "privilege" to post ...but please don't disturb this groove

Funny thing is, I remember reading many posts by members here who today consider themselves hardened professionals, asking the exact same stupid questions just a few short years ago and I think it's a good thing they have grown as filmmakers through using this resource.

There has always been a high signal to noise ratio on Reduser. Yes it has got worse lately; it was always going to with the release of Scarlet and other large sensor cameras from Sony, Canon et al.

The noise you complain about is mostly coming from owners anyway.

The largest problem is just duplicate topics. And some of that is inconsiderate and lazy posting (See the 5-6 threads on the front page of one section right now all on Blackshading and noise).
And some of that is caused by the fact that REDuser now is overly spread out.

There is a thread for selling stuff. And there is a thread for selling RED branded stuff. Redundant much? People constantly get confused and post in the wrong one.

There is a complaint department... and a bugs and problems forum.

There is a Cinematography thread... Eh? And an Audio thread? There's still a RED Ray thread and Post-Production hardware thread which both go essentially unused. There is a Fashion Photography SPECIFIC forum. And there is yet another forum now devoted to people who bought Epic-Ms.

So if you have a post like "When should I blackshade" which is a reasonable question... asked ONCE. You could hypothetically post it in Epic and Scarlet since both would have the exact same answer--and even feasibly RED Discussion since it's "All things RED"... but what if you are shooting fashion photography should you also discuss blackshading as it relates to a fashion photographer?

It's way too much information spread out across way too many different pages to stay up to date. I don't even remember where most discussions took place and have to go to my own profile to figure out where an interesting recent conversation was located. There is a temptation to categorize everything... but there is really something to be said for a single junk drawer where you know it's in there and you just need to find it as opposed to 10 junk drawers.

You will fall far behind with this metality. Forum noise is pretty standard these days and "stupid ass" comments come from all corners here at reduser as far as im concerned. If the quality of the forum needs work, then let's look at that.

Where to begin: First off, the Scarlet is a RED camera. It's as powerful or even more powerful than the RED ONE. It is a part of the RED family, and therefore the SCARLET user is a part of the RED family. We're not going to put them "in the back of the bus" It's not who we are. Or at least who we should be..

In terms of cost, the Scarlet is very similar to the RED ONE. And in terms of the buyers, I can remember back in the day so many RED ONE Users saying "I have almost broke myself buying this thing!" The Scarlet users of today, are the RED ONE users of yesterday. Some jumped before they were ready, and are expressing that concern and frustration on here. It's been going on for a long time.

With "separating the forum" or a "paid membership" we are assuming we know who we're going to learn from next. Alas it's never that simple.

The problem is not Scarlet.. It was not the RED One. It's the poster. When I first got on here, I was arrogant, I was angry with choices RED was making, I was impatient. I "shared" all of this on REDUser, and sadly it did a lot of damage and cost a few relationships. Some of which have never fully recovered. I was new to the whole "Communication without consequence" thing.. I did not understand that co-existing in the community was more important that being right. Back then we were all new, and Jim, Jarred, Ketch, Gibby, etc were very patient with me. However it was not without it's rough spots.. I can still remember a very "tense" phone call from Jim one day!

Over time, I learned.. I got better, and I hope I have become a contributing member of this society. Even today though, there are members on here, and things that happen that cause me to write some of my more famous posts.. But 9 times of out 10, I delete them before I post them.

Even Jim is not above this.. How many times have we read threads from him that suddenly disappear. We all suffer from this at one time or another.

Scarlet users are our family. And they are not the bastard child. There are now, as we were then. In fact they are smart, brave people who were smart enough to look beyond the bull of Sony and others, and realize that the best camera around was the RED. Just like we did. To deny them, is to deny our own past. The quickest way to lose where you are going, is to forget where you came from.

Solution?: Yes their is one. But it's not a shotgun approach, it's a rifle. moderators will need to increase (I'll volunteer) and moderation will need to be a little tougher. More important, posters need to be told where they are off base, and how to improve.

I have to agree with the people quoted. Yes, noise has raised, but REDUser has raised in members too, so it's expected.
The comment of information being spread in a lot of threads is also very true. I've asked for a thread with all important basic information (maybe post-wise, camera-wise, ...) in it. Make them stickys. Or official FAQ's as been suggested.
If Jarred or Jim post something in the RECON thread, about a new product, 1000 people also reply with "GREAT!" and "AMAZING!". That has been there since the beginning of REDUser. Sometimes I've also found it a bit irritating, but I never complained. It's normal, with people's enthusiasm and stuff. Forums work that way. They are organic. Nobody complained then. (not like now)

When I want to post a new thread, I first do a search. It doesn't always work good, and like someone else said: I also read 10 times as much as I post (even more actually). Hey sometimes, you skip something. I started a thread, where someone (not very kindly) remembered that one of my questions was in the REDCine manual. Oops. My fault.
I think some people here should read REDUser a couple of years back and take a look. I think the signal/noise ratio was more or less the same. But with so many new Scarlet owners, there is just more posts, more good threads, more bad threads, ...
Having the 20 sub forums doesn't help either - although it's easier to see what's wrong than to find a good balanced solution (which I don't think a paid subscription is one of... I personally agree that it would make REDUser die much more then it would help it prevail...)

I've been there since the beginning. I saw Jim make the first post on DVInfo, asking people what they would like in their dream camera. (anyone remember that?). The first website, with just the racing-picture.
I've been to the first IBC, with the footage of Frankie. I've been reading forums since it started.
Now I can finally work with a Scarlet. But I'm still a newbie.
Don't cut of people like that. It's a negative solution, and one that still feels like elitism, even if it isn't meant that way.
Think about RED themselves. They are also happy to say that they didn't know anything when they started, and sometimes still don't.

Noise you can moderate. Maybe ignore. Someone having good criticism? Listen. Somebody just cursing? Send them a warning, and ban them if they don't learn from their mistakes.
Someone asking a question? Well, if they seem eager to learn, help them, even if they stumble. (Isn't that what this place is for?)

Have you attention to all the great stuff (still) happening here. Don't destroy it. Find positive solutions. Not negative ones.

Kind regards,

 

[Elsie N]

Thanks for looking out Scott.. That's cool. But I do not see this as a conflict.. Just not totally sure of the job description or that Jarred would want me to do it. In fact, I would not be able to do it alone. But I would be honored to give back on here in any way I can. Just point and I will go.

I think it would really be a collective effort of all the mods. It would have to be to work.. But I'm happy to add myself to the workload.

Jay, the fact that you've walked over the same hot coals as a lot of these new customers are now walking makes you the perfect fit for moderating these individuals because, by your own admission, you have worked through the same impatience they are going through. And, as someone who has been an occasional thorn in RED's side, you have the experience to know when a beef is legit and needs addressing, or when a complaint is unwarranted and the complainer needs his or her ears boxed. You'd be great for the job IMO.

 

[Bob Gundu]

I agree that most posts are dropped in the wrong sub-forums. And yes I miss Davids posts as well.

I agree with what someone said earlier. Perhaps the shotgun isn't best for this situation. Perhaps a few riflemen might be? I enjoy answering new people's questions, but I also would rather have them in one place instead of spread out around the forum.

The membership and activity have greatly increased in the last 6 months...so perhaps more moderation might be a help? There are seemingly so many threads in the wrong sub-forum. The unboxing videos should be in "Unboxing". The gear in a city that is available should not be in Jobs / Equipment For Hire. Not in EPIC or SCARLET Subforums.

Perhaps the "Jobs / Equipment For Hire" could even be broken up into 3 sections. (1) People with gear to rent (2) People looking for gear to rent (3) Jobs. And while we are at it, RED stuff for sale could even be broken up into 2 sections. (1) Official RED Gear for Sale (2) Gear for Sale

Just some ideas on how to make REDuser a greater place.

P.S. These are great ideas Big Lu. David Battistella and I have been talking about this for quite a while. He's one of many who have left as a result of what's been happening lately...

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

How will having a paid subscription to RedUser change anything? Money is not the problem. I'm amazed at how many young kids can afford a RED. They can certainly buy a subscription. Why not have a system where you can vote on the quality of the post. If it's useful, click on the like button. A silly post, gets a thumbs down. The ability to search higher rates posts will be useful. Enough dislikes and the moderator can remove it. Perhaps people will think twice about posting a useless post.

BTW, one vote for this also. I've read some comments where I really wished I could give them a thumbs up because they contained so much information. If anyone could do that, and you would have a preference setting where you could, in a thread, only see those posts, it would help to quickly see solutions.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Any time I have a doubt.. I follow David Mullen's example.. Anyone read his thread? Inspiring.

There are bad apples everywhere, and everyone searches for the "I don't like these posts make them go away" button.. But as in life, the best nuggets usually require some sort of toil to find. This is the case here.

When the site was smaller, it was different.. But REDUser, just like RED, has evolved. Improved in some ways, and not in others.. I think it can be improved, but it will never be what it was. This is not always a bad thing.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

I joined this forum a few years ago, but didn't own a RED camera. I spent (and still spend) hours reading REDUser everyday, and have gotten a tremendous education by doing it. But I'm not spending my time reading the Scarlet forum...frankly I rarely even go there. Instead, I am reading David Mullen's thread, or the lens shoot-outs, or posts from Gunleik, M Most, Ketch, Gibby, BigLu, Jeff Kilgroe, Mark Toia, Tonaci, and a host of other REDUser veterans. These are the things that brought me here in the first place, and keep me here now...reading, learning, growing, developing my own skills. We are just about to take delivery of our first RED MX (the wheels grind slowly in the education world), but I feel like I am really ready to take advantage of it because of the knowledge that those vets put out on this forum. Earlier this year I went to REDucation, and the time, energy and know-how that those same veterans gave us was awesome...more selfless giving on their part. I would hate to see that knowledge and great attitude dry up, or go elsewhere out of frustration!

So, back to BigLu's original point...the signal-to-noise ratio on REDUser has gotten a lot worse in the last six months. Something has to diminish the BS level or the value of the community starts to suffer. I admit that it can very hard to find certain information. Maybe the forum category and sub-category structure could be refined. Or as Elsie suggested, raise the threshold of posts when a member can begin a new thread. More moderation would certainly help, but that puts a big time commitment on already busy individuals trying to make a living. If a paid forum for owners is determined to be the best avenue, then count me in...I will gladly pay for access to the combined knowledgebase of this community.

I guess what I really want to say is THANK YOU...to Jim and Jarred for providing this venue, and to all the RED pioneers who have taken a lot of arrows along the trail and passed their hard-won knowledge onto guys like me.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jay, the fact that you've walked over the same hot coals as a lot of these new customers are now walking makes you the perfect fit for moderating these individuals because, by your own admission, you have worked through the same impatience they are going through. And, as someone who has been an occasional thorn in RED's side, you have the experience to know when a beef is legit and needs addressing, or when a complaint is unwarranted and the complainer needs his or her ears boxed. You'd be great for the job IMO.

I will do whatever is asked of me.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Great post. I agree with all but the moderator removing unpopular remarks. It wouldn't be necessary, and the censorship revolt would be overwhelming.

How will having a paid subscription to RedUser change anything? Money is not the problem. I'm amazed at how many young kids can afford a RED. They can certainly buy a subscription. Why not have a system where you can vote on the quality of the post. If it's useful, click on the like button. A silly post, gets a thumbs down. The ability to search higher rates posts will be useful. Enough dislikes and the moderator can remove it. Perhaps people will think twice about posting a useless post.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

I joined this forum a few years ago, but didn't own a RED camera. I spent (and still spend) hours reading REDUser everyday, and have gotten a tremendous education by doing it. But I'm not spending my time reading the Scarlet forum...frankly I rarely even go there. Instead, I am reading David Mullen's thread, or the lens shoot-outs, or posts from Gunleik, M Most, Ketch, Gibby, BigLu, Jeff Kilgroe, Mark Toia, Tonaci, and a host of other REDUser veterans. These are the things that brought me here in the first place, and keep me here now...reading, learning, growing, developing my own skills. We are just about to take delivery of our first RED MX (the wheels grind slowly in the education world), but I feel like I am really ready to take advantage of it because of the knowledge that those vets put out on this forum. Earlier this year I went to REDucation, and the time, energy and know-how that those same veterans gave us was awesome...more selfless giving on their part. I would hate to see that knowledge and great attitude dry up, or go elsewhere out of frustration!

So, back to BigLu's original point...the signal-to-noise ratio on REDUser has gotten a lot worse in the last six months. Something has to diminish the BS level or the value of the community starts to suffer. I admit that it can very hard to find certain information. Maybe the forum category and sub-category structure could be refined. Or as Elsie suggested, raise the threshold of posts when a member can begin a new thread. More moderation would certainly help, but that puts a big time commitment on already busy individuals trying to make a living. If a paid forum for owners is determined to be the best avenue, then count me in...I will gladly pay for access to the combined knowledgebase of this community.

I guess what I really want to say is THANK YOU...to Jim and Jarred for providing this venue, and to all the RED pioneers who have taken a lot of arrows along the trail and passed their hard-won knowledge onto guys like me.

Great Post Tom

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Great post. I agree with all but the moderator removing unpopular remarks. It wouldn't be necessary, and the censorship revolt would be overwhelming.

moderation does not equal "censorship".

 

[Scott Crawley]

moderation does not equal "censorship".

No, but removing posts because they are unpopular does by definition. Allowing them to drop to the bottom is sufficient.

 

[Elsie N]

No, but removing posts because they are unpopular does.

I agree with this. Sometimes a poster is misunderstood by the majority and is branded unpopular, while a discerning mind may get what that poster really meant and be enlightened.

 

[Jason Diamond]

BigLu and Mark, I have written many a similar post but chose not to post for contextual reasons as well.

Thanks for stepping up and I back this 100%. I find myself coming here less and less and writing or contributing even less. It's not that I don;t respect the people on here learning or new I jsut think the noise has outweighed the info.

I know Jim and Jarred will find a good solution.

 

[Bob Gundu]

memories of the gong show popped in my head If the dislike number hits 100, the post vanishes! Ha Ha.

No, but removing posts because they are unpopular does.

 

[Bob Gundu]

REDUSER is nothing compared to the noise over at DVXUSER.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Oh Mean Gene The Dancing Machine... And the unparalleled Unknown Comic! Classics.

memories of the gong show popped in my head If the dislike number hits 100, the post vanishes! Ha Ha.

 

[Don Whitley]

If the camera is so controversial why not create the proper training material to keep those from filling up the RED Forum with BS. I currently own a scarlet now and there are some simple things that I would want to ask that are little different from my Red One. But if the documentation was written a little better I think it would cut down on a lot of unnecessary post.

 

[Patrick OMara]

It's not Scarlet users per say, it's RED's exposure because they are hitting the news a lot more often now, the popularity and controversies are growing. There'll be FUD, naysayers, people that complain about features even though they haven't even touched a RED camera etc... If I do recall some of this started from the EPIC as well.

It's an influx of more people based on an ever increasing amount of exposure. Moderation just needs to step up a notch to deal with it but I can tell you that in the long term this will be an issue 100x it is now. It needs more automation and moderators to keep an eye on if the automation is flowing correctly.

A few things that could solve BigLu's issue:

1) threads should be able to be tagged (informative, insightful, newbie, rig config etc...).
2) users should have a personal setting that can filter out what they don't want to see. For BigLu, he can select newbie and Scarlet. But because everyone is NOT Biglu, maybe people will want to keep the newbie tag because they are still green and learning. Everyone wins.
3) and/or you filter "New Posts" with only a rating that is 4 stars or higher.
4) Show certain forums areas in "New Posts" only. User Selectable.


problem solved without needing to offend people.


we just need a more modern forum.


----
Fee's, saying Scarlet users are bad, owners only area, etc... are very very bad things, that's not a community. Shutting anyone out is "bad press".