Arri Alexa and Mysterium-X...

[Sanjin Jukic]

Please - don't let the fanboy get the better of you. While the KI Pro is a very cool product, it does not record in ProRes 4444, but rather ProRes 422. Also - nobody knows the quality of the signal the Alexa outputs vs. the 720p signal the RED outputs. Also - having two different boxes to manage with signal & power-cables isn't exactly as elegant as the Alexa where everything is built into one single (and - IMHO - well-designed) box. The HD-SDI signal coming from the RED is fine for monitoring but isn't exactly broadcast quality (as far as I understand in terms of debayer quality).

Tony,

OK, you have 422 the best out of KiPro but isn't all broadcast at 8bit 422 quality anyway.

For ProRes 444 you have REDRocket to convert if you need it.

Also don't make fun out of RED's HD-SDI quality and try out once yourself to see how it is good.

If you talk about cables with extra boxes then just have a look below and imagine how many cables you would need to record higher than ProRes on Alexa:

Taken from Alexa workflow pdf.

That's all my dear fellow RED funboy!

 

[Chuck Z]

Umm, it looks like you need one (ARRI T-Link).

Am I missing something?

 

[Todd M.]

Umm, it looks like you need one (ARRI T-Link).

Am I missing something?

I think Sanjin was referring to Tony stating that "having two different boxes to manage with signal & power-cables isn't exactly as elegant as the Alexa where everything is built into one single (and - IMHO - well-designed) box". I think Tony was the one missing something because you cannot capture uncompressed footage from the Alexa without "two different boxes". I hope he finds CODEX as elegant.

 

[Tim Morten]

So what system are you using?

Obviously not FinalCut, ProRes fan-boy .

And obviously you're not shooting your R1-M with Build 30 yet.

Correct - like I said let's talk about that after NAB (which is next week, by the way).

Give me native RAW over ProRes any day. Red is delivering on that. We have every reason to believe that the workflow will CONTINUE to be as easy as plugging in, copying the files, and starting to edit. DS, Premiere, Scratch... the list goes on.

If your strongest argument is that build 30 support isn't out yet, I believe that you're going to need to sing a new tune in a week.

Let's see how fast Arri rolls out their raw support. Let's see how fast Arri gets support for higher resolutions (when they even have a camera that can produce them, that is).

With Red, I get easy workflow AND raw support. With Arri, I get easy workflow only if I don't use raw -- oh yeah, AND I have to give up 75% of my resolution, AND I have to pay three times as much for it. Sounds great! Where do I sign up?

Cheers,
Tim

 

[Tim Morten]

"Obsolesence obsolete." (Red)
"Scarlet: Fall 2009" (Red)
"The best fleshtones" (Panasonic)
"The best editing software on the planet" (Avid)
"The greatest name in color" (Technicolor)
"The ultimate driving machine" (BMW)
Any claim ever made for a product that hasn't even shipped yet (Red, Arri, Sony, Panasonic, Apple, and just about any technology company you can name)

Marketing is marketing. If you're going to get bent out of shape over this, you should be just as judgmental with every other company and product. Companies say things to get attention drawn to their products. It's a fact of business life.

I slept on this, and it still doesn't sit well with me. There's a difference between hyperbole (an obvious exaggeration), and making false claims. Arri is making false claims here.

BTW, you can't ding Red for "Scarlet: Fall 2009" -- EVERY post from Jim has made it clear that dates are subject to change.

Is Michael Bravin going to add a line to his sig that says: "Our marketing claims are subject to being unsubstantiated bullsh*t"?

He should. That would earn back some of my respect.

- Tim

 

[Timothy Eaton]

Hey Tim,

As Dennis Miller says, "I like the cut of your jib." Straight up, no nonsense, cut to the chase - cool.

 

[James Brundige]

Jim

Of course, you know me, I would love to share this information right here right now but we have decided to wait till our "Meet ALEXA" event at the DGA April 6th to share information about ALEXA, publicly, its less than 10 days.

My only conversation with you, Michael, was at NAB 2007, when you offered to sell me your very early place in line to purchase a Red One. Did you ever take delivery of that camera?

 

[Paul Leeming]

Anyone in the Final Cut world lamenting the lack of R3D online editing in full resolution, REALLY owes it to themselves to check out Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 at NAB....

Up to 10K, hardware accelerated playback of multiple R3D streams; just open the R3D files directly, drag them to your 4.5K sequence (as of today's camera capabilities) and start editing. Want to change the RAW parameters? Go ahead, nothing's baked in.

Seriously. Check it out. You'll be amazed (and sad that FCP can't do any of that stuff).

Cheers,

Paul

 

[Michael Bravin]

My only conversation with you, Michael, was at NAB 2007, when you offered to sell me your very early place in line to purchase a Red One. Did you ever take delivery of that camera?

I did (#54) and I kept it for 2 years where it was used on many shoots, I bought 2 more since then when I was with Band Pro. MP&E now has #54, the other two were on a stereo rig outside the US for a while and now one of them is somewhere in the Pacific off Kauai after a boating accident.

 

[Andrew Rieger]

I did (#54) and I kept it for 2 years where it was used on many shoots, I bought 2 more since then when I was with Band Pro. MP&E now has #54, the other two were on a stereo rig outside the US for a while and now one of them is somewhere in the Pacific off Kauai after a boating accident.

Treasure Hunt! Perfect for a documentary about "The Lost Red One" we could go all James Cameron underwater and shit!

 

[James Brundige]

I did (#54) and I kept it for 2 years where it was used on many shoots, I bought 2 more since then when I was with Band Pro. MP&E now has #54, the other two were on a stereo rig outside the US for a while and now one of them is somewhere in the Pacific off Kauai after a boating accident.

Now I get it. I did not realize you had left Band Pro. Thought you were rep-ing Arri over there.

Got a GPS fix? Couple years of salt water might make an interesting Red sculpture.

 

[M Most]

I slept on this, and it still doesn't sit well with me. There's a difference between hyperbole (an obvious exaggeration), and making false claims. Arri is making false claims here.

No, they're stating their opinion. Just like Red is stating theirs, and Sony is stating theirs in all of their marketing. Nobody can "prove" beyond the shadow of a doubt a claim of being "best." If one is comparing the Alexa's specs to what's currently out there - and I would point out that the Epic is not - their claims are not "bullshit," they're sensible, if only as an opinion. If they said it can record 30 hours of ProRes4444 on one SxS card, THAT would be false. But making statements related to their own testing in comparison to currently selling devices, and stating an opinion based on that, is no different than anyone else's marketing.

Marketing is all about hyperbole. Opinions are part of that. You don't have to share the opinion, but it doesn't become a "false claim" simply because you don't happen to agree with it.

 

[Tim Morten]

To be fair, I should have said "unsubstantiated claims". Maybe Arri will back them up, but so far they have not.

I can see the argument that "The most advanced digital camera system" might be hyperbole/opinion.

However "The highest dynamic range and sensitivity on the market" doesn't sound like a matter of opinion to be. That sounds like a definitive, measurable claim. If it's true, and it's proven to be true, I have no problem with Arri saying it.

It is the absence of that substantiation that causes me to take umbrage.

- Tim

 

[Martin Stevens]

To be fair, I should have said "unsubstantiated claims". Maybe Arri will back them up, but so far they have not.

I can see the argument that "The most advanced digital camera system" might be hyperbole/opinion.

However "The highest dynamic range and sensitivity on the market" doesn't sound like a matter of opinion to be. That sounds like a definitive, measurable claim. If it's true, and it's proven to be true, I have no problem with Arri saying it.

It is the absence of that substantiation that causes me to take umbrage.

- Tim

I agree with you Tim. Very well put.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

i am a huge Arri Fan, this marketing style just doesnt fit their style

 

[M Most]

i am a huge Arri Fan, this marketing style just doesnt fit their style

The world is changing. Companies that are smart change with it.

 

[James Brundige]

For sale: The best camera ever

For sale: The best camera ever

I am selling the best, most high resolution, incredible camera ever made. Looks way better than any other imaging device that exists.

$50,000.

Please ignore the resemblance to an old HDV camera with "Sony" written on the side. This really is the best one. NAB booth 66666. Dead Digital Cinema.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

The world is changing. Companies that are smart change with it.

Do you know how fatal it can be for companies to change their brand recognition?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7209828/

this with a quick search

 

[Peter Moretti]

...

However "The highest dynamic range and sensitivity on the market" doesn't sound like a matter of opinion to be. That sounds like a definitive, measurable claim. If it's true, and it's proven to be true, I have no problem with Arri saying it.

...

Compared to a Red One you buy today, is anyone auguring this isn't true?

Now with the MX sensor in a Red One body, it seems like a horse race, but certainly Red is not a clear winner.

However, to get the MX sensor you have to buy a Red One and then get an upgrade. How long will the wait time be with a new purchase?

Seeing footage of both, my very subjective guess is that Arri wins in the DR department by a small margin.

That said, the Alexa is very expensive in comparison to Red's current offerings. And very heavy and expensive in comparison to what's down the road for Red.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

As you obviously know, all of these new cameras provide some really cool tools and options for those of us like me and you who're putting them to daily use out in the field. To me its a really exciting time to be in the motion media business, with lots of good equipment options to choose from

No doubt!

There are other advantages to resolution as well. Keying is a lot easier on high resolution footage which is then down-rezzed as well. Tracking is easier since a real pixel to track is more reliable than sub-pixel tracking.

I guess I just often see a lot of people talk about "future proofing" but rarely see it ever actually come up in practice.

For everyone who sells a $1m stock library there are 1k people whose footage never sees the light of day again. There will always be the exception but most of the people making camera decisions aren't owner/operators they're producers, DPs and other creatives or executives who have 0 financial incentive to manage a stock library. They will rent the camera which delivers tomorrow what they are most looking for to air on Saturday and replace on Wednesday. Even then going back and re-mastering a TV episode or film is probably extremely unlikely unless you're talking about a film or episode of historical significance.