Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDRAY NOW SHIPPING...

Corey_O said:
Blair, Have you tried 2k on the Redray yet?
Click to expand...

I have not. So many options for 1080 or 2K already in place.

Don't get me wrong, I think RedRay could be a terrific server for HD or 2K, just not important to me at this time. If I was certain that RedRay as currently offered had a long future I'd take the time to test 2K capabilities in case a client asked, but IMO that's a stretch. Due to the very limited landscape of UHD/4K source devices and the level of IQ needed to show off the UHD/4K format that is my focus with the RedRay.

Cheers- #19
 
2K on the REDRAY right now would still need to be placed in a 4K container, which means that 2K sources need to be upscaled for encode. That is something I have not played with on REDRAY.

As for viewing 4K REDRAY on a 1080p/ 2K display system, it looks stunning. On large screens like a 75" Samsung or via a 1080p projector, it's still 1080p output quality, obviously. But the image is truly great. We don't see the compression artifacts and other anomalies present in Blu-Ray or even 2K MJPEG/DCP files. This is really impressive stuff.

I have to agree with Blair on the audio output thing. I've brought it up in a couple other places. The REDRAY really needs a discreet digital audio output for each of the HDMI outputs. Additionally, it really needs an RS232 port for integration. I appreciate that it can be controlled over IP, but there's no info on how to do this made available yet and many systems still rely on serial communication for device control and feedback.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
2K on the REDRAY right now would still need to be placed in a 4K container, which means that 2K sources need to be upscaled for encode. That is something I have not played with on REDRAY.

As for viewing 4K REDRAY on a 1080p/ 2K display system, it looks stunning. On large screens like a 75" Samsung or via a 1080p projector, it's still 1080p output quality, obviously. But the image is truly great. We don't see the compression artifacts and other anomalies present in Blu-Ray or even 2K MJPEG/DCP files. This is really impressive stuff.

I have to agree with Blair on the audio output thing. I've brought it up in a couple other places. The REDRAY really needs a discreet digital audio output for each of the HDMI outputs. Additionally, it really needs an RS232 port for integration. I appreciate that it can be controlled over IP, but there's no info on how to do this made available yet and many systems still rely on serial communication for device control and feedback.
Click to expand...

The reason I brought up 2k was mainly to help bridge the content vacuum until more 4k material came on line for consumer.

I was able to view the Redray demo at Red Studios and the upscaled 2k looked very good imo.
 
I'm surprised those that have taken delivery of RedRay were able to keep them. I know there are a ton of us that have had them in our orders for far too long and still haven't seen it in the flesh. I wish RED would tell us what the heck is going on with it.
 
Justin Kirchhoff said:
I'm surprised those that have taken delivery of RedRay were able to keep them. I know there are a ton of us that have had them in our orders for far too long and still haven't seen it in the flesh. I wish RED would tell us what the heck is going on with it.
Click to expand...

I was one of the first to make a reservation but it was never allocated. Unfortunate.
 
Not to rush you, but...

Not to rush you, but...

I'm actually just borrowing one from a fellow RedUser, my order is frozen as well.

There are obvious clues pointing to a complete re-boot of the RedRay platform, or its demise. It could also just be RED staying quiet so they can make a splash at NAB with "Son of RedRay".

My polite request to Jarred and the RedTeam is to clear the air on this subject by NAB 2014. Now that UHD/4K displays are readily available many of us want to show potential (and current) clients just what all the fuss is about. The RedRay is potentially a great tool for demos, pitches, screenings, etc but if its not viable in its current iteration then kill it and we can sort other options.

Cheers - #19
 
REDRAY is not dead.....
 
Shipping "now" is a relative term in the flexible time / space continuum ;-)
 
damn it, this post popped on my email.

got me all excited ;)
 
Here's to hoping for at least prototypes of "RedRay 2.0" at NAB...

Here's to hoping for at least prototypes of "RedRay 2.0" at NAB...

Thanks Jarred. I can imagine you guys are tired of tipping off the competition, but some sense of the roadmap is very helpful for us.

Obviously its been a while since the first RedRays were seeded and several people on this thread, myself included, have long standing back orders. Of course its possible that this "pause" in shipping is purely about supply chain issues, but as fast as things are moving in this space that seems unlikely. I will remain hopeful that a revised version of the RedRay will be shown at NAB with units shipping in quantity by the end of Q2 '14.

Until there were a decent number of UHD/4K displays in the field, there wasn't much motivation to push out RedRay players. Now there are several manufacturers shipping second generation displays, some even with HDMI 2.0 support right now and a few others just a firmware upgrade away. I think I speak for a lot of folks when I suggest that waiting for 2160/60P capable devices makes a lot of sense even if most content generated in 2014 will be 24, 25 or 30. Why? Paying a premium for new tech can be a competitive advantage but its a lot easier to ROI UHD/4K devices that can support 24, 25, 30 and 60P since they will still be viable after 60P over HDMI 2.0 (and other I/O) proliferates. Like Jeff K. I passed on the first gen Sony 4K projectors (1000ES). In December 2013 I bought a second gen (600ES) soon after it started shipping.

RED Digital Cinema is a purveyor of disruptive technology and, IMO, they grasp the fundamental dilemma of pioneering manufacturers - timing. Over the last few years UHD/4K has progressed from esoterica to the early adopter stage. Long delays in ratification of standards like HEVC and HDMI 2.0 put a number of vendors in a tough spot - first/early mover or wait for better cost/capability ratios from component vendors. IMO, RED just couldn't sit back and wait; not in their DNA and they didn't want to cede the pole position they had established in the UHD/4K space. Hence the current RedRay player was born, but it appears they hedged their play by only shipping a limited number so that when next gen chip sets/etc became available, RedRay 2.0 (or whatever they call it) could be made at a lower unit cost and support more formats.

FWIW, this seems like a smart strategy to me in light of the rate of progress of other UHD/4K devices and I/O in this time frame. The delay in standards ratification put the chipmakers on hold and now that 2014 is upon us, there should be a tidal wave of devices sporting HDMI 2.0 capability.

Waiting longer pluses:
lowers the cost of components
allows time for vendors to spin ASICs and other integrated components that reduce TDP and size
allows engineering/design to study devices/displays from others to implement stable support protocols

Waiting longer cons:
competing UHD/4K players/codecs can establish market share
early shipping devices foster de facto standards that can shortchange the format
without source devices capable of decent quality UHD/4K the entire emerging UHD/4K ecosystem is compromised

Cheers - #19
 
Redray, Redray, what is Redray? (In crusty old man's voice from the wilderness of time) Ohh yes, Red.., I seem to remember something called Redray long ago, on his trusty Red steed on top of a mountain of servers, threatening to rush down the valley blazing crimson lasers from his eyes, to raze the farms of servers. There once was such a legendary beast, a few saw him, but then he was seen no more. I remember, they nick named him Jim.. Oh how they wished he would swoop down on the castles of MediaN and save us from the cost of mediocrity. Ohh how I remember. (Old man's voice off).
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Thanks Jarred. I can imagine you guys are tired of tipping off the competition, but some sense of the roadmap is very helpful for us.

Obviously its been a while since the first RedRays were seeded and several people on this thread, myself included, have long standing back orders. Of course its possible that this "pause" in shipping is purely about supply chain issues, but as fast as things are moving in this space that seems unlikely. I will remain hopeful that a revised version of the RedRay will be shown at NAB with units shipping in quantity by the end of Q2 '14.

Until there were a decent number of UHD/4K displays in the field, there wasn't much motivation to push out RedRay players. Now there are several manufacturers shipping second generation displays, some even with HDMI 2.0 support right now and a few others just a firmware upgrade away. I think I speak for a lot of folks when I suggest that waiting for 2160/60P capable devices makes a lot of sense even if most content generated in 2014 will be 24, 25 or 30. Why? Paying a premium for new tech can be a competitive advantage but its a lot easier to ROI UHD/4K devices that can support 24, 25, 30 and 60P since they will still be viable after 60P over HDMI 2.0 (and other I/O) proliferates. Like Jeff K. I passed on the first gen Sony 4K projectors (1000ES). In December 2013 I bought a second gen (600ES) soon after it started shipping.

RED Digital Cinema is a purveyor of disruptive technology and, IMO, they grasp the fundamental dilemma of pioneering manufacturers - timing. Over the last few years UHD/4K has progressed from esoterica to the early adopter stage. Long delays in ratification of standards like HEVC and HDMI 2.0 put a number of vendors in a tough spot - first/early mover or wait for better cost/capability ratios from component vendors. IMO, RED just couldn't sit back and wait; not in their DNA and they didn't want to cede the pole position they had established in the UHD/4K space. Hence the current RedRay player was born, but it appears they hedged their play by only shipping a limited number so that when next gen chip sets/etc became available, RedRay 2.0 (or whatever they call it) could be made at a lower unit cost and support more formats.

FWIW, this seems like a smart strategy to me in light of the rate of progress of other UHD/4K devices and I/O in this time frame. The delay in standards ratification put the chipmakers on hold and now that 2014 is upon us, there should be a tidal wave of devices sporting HDMI 2.0 capability.

Waiting longer pluses:
lowers the cost of components
allows time for vendors to spin ASICs and other integrated components that reduce TDP and size
allows engineering/design to study devices/displays from others to implement stable support protocols

Waiting longer cons:
competing UHD/4K players/codecs can establish market share
early shipping devices foster de facto standards that can shortchange the format
without source devices capable of decent quality UHD/4K the entire emerging UHD/4K ecosystem is compromised

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...


Great post Blair. You hit a lot of nails on the head.
 
Jarred Land said:
REDRAY is not dead.....
Click to expand...

Jarred,

does the same status apply to the RED projectors?

Just curious. There are still theaters that haven't changed to digital. The market share worldwide is less than 10% for unconverted theaters. All of them face a "buy or die" situation over the next couple of month, as films are essentially no longer available on 35mm film material. These theaters are small, local, independent, often arthouse. Small visitor numbers, no big budgets. Often too small to even apply for subvention support programs.

These theaters desperately need a solution - an affordable solution.

The competition filled their pockects with a lot of state subvention money and comparably high prices. Now we reach a "market filled" situation and prices begin to drop drastically (nearly 50% cheaper than 6 month ago).

Where is RED in that game?



And not to forget:

While many theaters have a solution in place, for now, there is a second wave coming. Then, when the first devices reach their lifetime. These are no Ernemann style 35mm projectors which can last forever. These are electronic devices now with typical lifetimes or possibly 3 to 5 years. Almost no theater has a plan what to do when their equipment lifetime is over. Most hope that the lease payments will not last forever (I suspect they'll do). So the market share in the "second wave" might be giant, depending on how disruptive a technology can be.

I had high hopes for the RED RAY and RED projector solutions. I just can hope that this is only delayed, not canceled out.

Give us some hope :-)

Cheers,
Axel
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top