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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDRAY Comments

I would like to know what is the highest possible data rate for 1080p using .MP4
I am pretty excited about the RED Ray release. It took a while, but looks like it was worth it :-)
 
On Tuesday and Wednesday, I attended Red Studios “Shot on Red” Film Festival. Ted, Brian, Rikki, and all who helped put it together, did an excellent job. Thanks again.

The production value was exceptional. The storytelling was informative and emotional. The crowd was clearly entertained. I was excited for the filmmakers and for the future of 4k. Interestingly, of the 36 finalists, 17 were located in countries other than the U.S.

Congrats again to you Phil, as a Finalist with ‘The World After’.

The point that Jon is making about ‘story driven’ movies played out at the festival. The audience’s favorite choice award on both nights went to films with great story telling.

The finalists agreed that working in 4k was different, but manageable. They were not discouraged by their experience. Work flows change. I’m sure some remember wet gates, pin registration, and film cleaners being part of Telecine. I’m energized watching the large number of people having access to the new affordable professional cinema tools, which will allow them a seat at the entertainment party. Aemilia Scott, director of last night’s winner, ‘Best if Used By’ shared the details of a week long shoot in Chicago with a budget of 5K. The new cinema world has clearly arrived. ODEMAX REDRAY will provide distribution of this world to the world.

The most interesting observation I had over the two evenings was the fact that this was the first time that the finalists had ever had the chance to see their footage projected in 4k. All agreed; it was impressive. Red Studios had to bring in and set-up their own 4k BARCO projector because the theatre’s equipment was limited to 2K. The fact that ODEMAX REDRAY will be available in homes in 3 months is mind bending.

I agree with Jon that 4k monitors will soon flood the market. Maxx Digital had a new EIZO 24” 4k monitor on display in the lobby last night. It had apparently just arrived — it isn’t even featured on their website yet, as far as I can see.

I have followed this thread from the beginning and believe that the ODEMAX REDRAY distribution system is taking us all on the journey of a lifetime. This is evident by the growing number of people who understand this new reality and want it in their world, but are frustrated that the systems just aren’t in place yet. Red is busting the gates down and driving the bus (or in Jarred’s case, the Jeep). Probably a little to fast for some, but that just makes the ride more exciting. I’m in. I’ll be the one sitting in the front seat, head out the window, yelling, “Faster! Faster!”

Well, done Jarred, Jon and all at RED.

Corey Olson
 
Max Nguyen said:
I guess it's Red's teach a man to fish philosophy.
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This is TOTALLY what I see. And I think we are just scratching the surface now. Ultimately, filmmaking is about collaboration in the truest sense of the word. To pull off the best work, we'll need to work in tandem with others. Obviously, that's not always the case, but I'm sure everyone gets where I'm coming from.
 
I've tried to keep up with this thread on a daily basis and I do not remember an answer to this question, but does anyone know how 48 fps plays over the REDRay player? I assume the player is not limited in anyway to play the 48 fps and that any limitation will be in the display or 4k projector, but I would like confirmation if this be true... I'm just trying to learn how this will affect me as a movie maker.
 
Elsie N said:
I've tried to keep up with this thread on a daily basis and I do not remember an answer to this question, but does anyone know how 48 fps plays over the REDRay player? I assume the player is not limited in anyway to play the 48 fps and that any limitation will be in the display or 4k projector, but I would like confirmation if this be true... I'm just trying to learn how this will affect me as a movie maker.
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If memory serves me, it plays up to 60fps...
 
Well I just got back from Red Studios Hollywood after viewing a little REDRAY projection demonstration put on by Hugo and his team.

Interesting stuff. The Red Laser Projector prototype was down due to a laser malfunction (remember prototype), but we did view the material on a 4K Sony Projector.

We saw both up-scaled .RED 1080p content encoded at 4K as well as 4K finished content in the form of LOOM. Red has a 40' projection screen and one thing that really stood out to me was how good the up-scaled content looked on the big screen. Hugo played two cartoons and both of those had some hard edges, diagonal, and curved lines. You could see where the resolution was lacking in the details like fur, but it looked pretty decent. And more importantly you couldn't see the .RED codec falling apart at all. Very impressive.

I've now seen LOOM projected at 4K via the laser projector and a traditional bulb projector. I can confirm that the colors are indeed more vibrant and truer on the laser projector versus what we saw today. This is due to a few factors such as light falloff and the nature of bulb based projection effecting the color saturation and contrast of the image. This is certainly one of things that excites me about laser projection. A lot of "that stuff" goes away. LOOM itself has some very difficult lighting conditions that are traditionally difficult for codecs like h.264 to handle. The bedroom in the short is lit very low key and on the .RED encoded material you can not only see subtle dark gradients, but also fine skin detail. It looks damn nice.

Ted popped in at the end for a little Q&A as well (even after teaching Reducation all day). We discussed a bit about ODEMAX and some interesting points were brought up during the conversation. One thing I'm curious about is potentially having a rating system for 4K material. I wonder what's possible on that front.

Other tidbits. The REDRAY was also hooked up to an 84" LG 4K monitor via one HDMI, which does indeed support 4K at 30 fps.

The laser projector itself scales in projection distance and screen size based on the lenses and laser package you choose. Red is developing special lenses for the new laser projectors. These new lenses are designed to minimize aberrations and are not capture lenses.


Really what I took from this is how unreal .RED looks projected. I've seen it in laser and bulb form now and I have to say it's really amazing.
 
Phil Holland said:
Well I just got back from Red Studios Hollywood after viewing a little REDRAY projection demonstration put on by Hugo and his team.

Interesting stuff. The Red Laser Projector prototype was down due to a laser malfunction (remember prototype), but we did view the material on a 4K Sony Projector.

We saw both up-scaled .RED 1080p content encoded at 4K as well as 4K finished content in the form of LOOM. Red has a 40' projection screen and one thing that really stood out to me was how good the up-scaled content looked on the big screen. Hugo played two cartoons and both of those had some hard edges, diagonal, and curved lines. You could see where the resolution was lacking in the details like fur, but it looked pretty decent. And more importantly you couldn't see the .RED codec falling apart at all. Very impressive.

I've now seen LOOM projected at 4K via the laser projector and a traditional bulb projector. I can confirm that the colors are indeed more vibrant and truer on the laser projector versus what we saw today. This is due to a few factors such as light falloff and the nature of bulb based projection effecting the color saturation and contrast of the image. This is certainly one of things that excites me about laser projection. A lot of "that stuff" goes away. LOOM itself has some very difficult lighting conditions that are traditionally difficult for codecs like h.264 to handle. The bedroom in the short is lit very low key and on the .RED encoded material you can not only see subtle dark gradients, but also fine skin detail. It looks damn nice.

Ted popped in at the end for a little Q&A as well (even after teaching Reducation all day). We discussed a bit about ODEMAX and some interesting points were brought up during the conversation. One thing I'm curious about is potentially having a rating system for 4K material. I wonder what's possible on that front.

Other tidbits. The REDRAY was also hooked up to an 84" LG 4K monitor via one HDMI, which does indeed support 4K at 30 fps.

Also, the REDRAY Player will be included as a bundle with the Red Laser Projector(s) when they are released and will not be built into the device themselves. It isn't clear on if you can purchase the projectors on their own without REDRAY, but I'm sure they are exploring that concept.

The laser projector itself scales in projection distance and screen size based on the lenses and laser package you choose. Red is developing special lenses for the new laser projectors. These new lenses are designed to minimize aberrations and are not capture lenses.


Really what I took from this is how unreal .RED looks projected. I've seen it in laser and bulb form now and I have to say it's really amazing.
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Sounds really amazing, wish I could be there. Hope all is well.

- E
 
Hey Phil glad you got to see it sorry I had to run to the airport.

One correction in your review.. There is no bundle.. the REDRAY is built into the Projector.. you can't get the projector without it, RR is physically inside it with the projector processor. The box you saw today is a stand alone device meant for other displays.
 
Jarred Land said:
Hey Phil glad you got to see it sorry I had to run to the airport.

One correction in your review.. There is no bundle.. the REDRAY is built into the Projector.. you can't get the projector without it, RR is physically inside it with the projector processor. The box you saw today is a stand alone device meant for other displays.
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No worries. You looked like you were in a rush. Tell "the boys" that it's built in!


Terry VerHaar said:
Phil - thanks so much for the report "from the field." :thumbsup:
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Paul Ellington said:
Sounds really amazing, wish I could be there. Hope all is well.
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Thanks guys. I'm doing great. This was a very Red week, which is a great thing. I think Ted's sick of seeing my ugly mug around :)


I should also add, back when I was primarily a colorist I had to deal with a great deal of variance between the projected image and the light table. This was dealing with film. Milky blacks were often the enemy.

The .RED file projected does not suffer from this. Especially on the laser projector. It looks deep and rich. It's looking pretty damn good.
 
I just got back from Red Studios, where I was fortunate enough to see a demo of REDRay. The content we saw was a mixture of 1080P content uprezzed to 4K, as well as "Loom" (which finished at 4K). Unfortunately, the laser projector was out of service, so all content was viewed on a Sony projector.

The main thing I wanted to see was the .red compression. I was skeptical about the data rate being quoted, and the footage we saw today was playing at approximately 11 Mbits / sec. For comparison, blu-ray plays (depending on the encoding) at roughly 30 Mbps. My reaction to the footage:

Wow.

The image I saw today, across a massive screen (I want to say it was 40 feet across, but that seems incorrect) could be shown in a theater and the vast majority of people would have zero problems with the image. For the size of the screen and a data rate the third of a blu-ray, it was impressive. I was impressed by the upscaled content, which managed to hold together well given the source and the size of the display, but the true star was "Loom". If I'm not mistaken, the version we watched was used at NAB and encoded with an older version of .red. While some shots had minor problems (noise, muddy detail), they always occurred in situations you would expect to have some difficulty, such as extremely low light. As was mentioned, the goal of "Loom" was to stress test an Epic by putting it in extreme situations to highlight the DR and other functions.

Minor nitpicks aside, it looked great. Some shots were stunning with the amount of detail in the frame. The low-light work in the bedroom was also impressive, with subtle details from the actors faces clearly visible. When it was done, we were reminded that the video we watched was playing back at 11 Mbps. It is hard to believe, but this was an image that could be used for a theatrical release playing back at a bitrate that could be streamed over the internet.

I'm floored. Definitely picking one of these units up once the projector is available. This is one of the most exciting things I've seen hit the industry in awhile, and it really has the potential to change the game as far as independent film / exhibition is concerned. There's never been a more exciting time to be a filmmaker.
 
The RED laser projector will have a RedRay inside? No need to buy the projector and a RR player?

Is the RED Laser Projector still, "projected," hehehe, to be 10k range? Any release estimates? After Dragon I assume? Able to be used as a CC device as well?

Jarred Land said:
Hey Phil glad you got to see it sorry I had to run to the airport.

One correction in your review.. There is no bundle.. the REDRAY is built into the Projector.. you can't get the projector without it, RR is physically inside it with the projector processor. The box you saw today is a stand alone device meant for other displays.
Click to expand...
 
Phil,

You left out one of the best tidbits of the laser projector. It uses enclosed water cooling to keep the noise down. According to Ted, it should sound like just a few small fans.

EDIT: Apparently I am mistaken about the liquid cooling. My apologies.
 
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Will Keir said:
The RED laser projector will have a RedRay inside? No need to buy the projector and a RR player?

Is the RED Laser Projector still, "projected," hehehe, to be 10k range? Any release estimates? After Dragon I assume? Able to be used as a CC device as well?
Click to expand...

By CC I take it you mean color correction? If so, that is hardly practical insofar as it will take a long time to render .RED files and they won't be editable thereafter. Sorry if I assumed wrong about "CC."
 
Eric J Robbins said:
Phil,

You left out one of the best tidbits of the laser projector. It uses enclosed water cooling to keep the noise down. According to Ted, it should sound like just a few small fans.
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sorry guys.. Seems like a bit of a disconnect. There is no water cooling in the projector head.. and there are really, really big fans that move alot of air silently, there are no small fans.

And about the lenses.. the "home" projector does not use interchangeable lenses.. it just has one. The big boy projectors ( theater, large venue, pro install ) do have swappable lenses.
 
Jarred Land said:
sorry guys.. Seems like a bit of a disconnect. There is no water cooling in the projector head.. and there are really, really big fans that move alot of air silently, there are no small fans.
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Thanks for the correction, Jarred. Still, very cool and I am looking forward to seeing it in action.
 
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