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Birger canon mount

A

Adam Eden

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Can someone please tell me explain to me why If I buy a BIRGER CANON mount for my RED that this will void my warranty and wont allow me to upgrade to epic?

I really want to use my L series Canon prime lenses on the RED
 
Changing the mount over is tricky and involves re-routing the i-data cable. This can (and I speak from personal experience) result in you accidentally squashing or severing the cable which, if you're really unlucky (I was not, thank whoever you choose to thank for these things) can totally fritz out the camera's main board.

Earlier on they allowed this with a disclaimer and a waiver but they eventually got sick of fixing up the screw-ups :redface: and pulled the pin on the whole shebang. This has resulted in, on the up-side, the lens mounts on Epic and Scarlet being a whole lot more bulletproof and easier to change.
 
Hi Shane

How does the Canon L series prime lenses look on the RED compared to PL mount RED PRIMES or other lenses?

Is it worth the headache in modifying the RED
 
Adam Eden said:
Is it worth the headache in modifying the RED
Click to expand...

It's a 10 to 20 minute process to swap. The only issue is as stated, you have to be careful with the lens data cable. I did the swap many times over 2008-2009 and never had a problem. My Impero worked for about 3 weeks, until new Red firmware, then new Impero firmware, which bricked the Impero. It's sad, it was a really fantastic, cheap, solution. I shot many small national tv spots and web jobs with EF glass.
 
Adam Eden said:
Hi Shane

How does the Canon L series prime lenses look on the RED compared to PL mount RED PRIMES or other lenses?

Is it worth the headache in modifying the RED
Click to expand...

david_winters said:
It's a 10 to 20 minute process to swap. The only issue is as stated, you have to be careful with the lens data cable. I did the swap many times over 2008-2009 and never had a problem. My Impero worked for about 3 weeks, until new Red firmware, then new Impero firmware, which bricked the Impero. It's sad, it was a really fantastic, cheap, solution. I shot many small national tv spots and web jobs with EF glass.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I would say that functionality, or the potential that it will be lacking, is the biggest issue. The lenses look great but you get iris in half stops, breathing, lateral shifts on focus and, sometimes, less than ideal focus smoothness from the focus motors. IMHO, it's most certainly a compromise, albeit a potentially fantastic one, with the ability to run very good, very cheap, very light glass on your Red One. If you can make PLs work for you, I'd stick with them. If you lack funds or need low weight then it's certainly worth a try. Just don't pinch that cable!

Of course, if you have an Epic Stage 2 on order, I'd be inclined to play it safe and rent a long PL lens. Those L series lenses are going to look great on your Epic though!
 
L series glass looks great !!! For me the biggest detriment as stated by others above is the hard iris stops and lateral focus shift. Breathing and CA has been IMO pretty acceptable.

Also in terms of red not wanting to support the Birger it has a lot to do with a choice about 3rd party integration and both the challenges of consistent support and the potential of poor integration reflecting badly on the red product as a whole. They had to make a decision regarding allowing others access to modifying their product and made what I think was the right choice in deciding that the only way to guarantee a uniformly quality solution was to retain in-house control.

Additionally I think even those who like and respect Eric and believe in the birger product as I do have been frustrated at some time with all of the delays and broken promises. I don't think anyone can claim that the impero is a professional solution even though the mount itself definitely has a much much higher standard of quality. The long expected "pro" knob/controller has been long overdue and even then is more designed for a prosumer mass 5d based market.
 
I guess the lateral focus shifts are dependent on the lens, I've used newish L series primes, and there is no lateral focus movement at all and to my eye only minimal breathing, steplessly smooth focus with the impero, in all the birger still works really well. Only 2 ongoing problems are not to plug the mount into camera power till after bootup, or it crashes the camera, and no iris readout in the monitor , meaning that working out the aperture entails counting the clicks from open.
 
Marcus Struzina said:
I guess the lateral focus shifts are dependent on the lens,
Click to expand...

I forgot about THAT issue. We ran into this on wide lenses...16-25mm and the 24-70mm close to 24mm. Several copies of several lenses, I'm confident it was a result of the mount collimation rotating ring not being totally parallel to the image plane.

I had one commercial job were we did focus pulls between two actors placed at the same distance from the lens - at 2.8.

L lens breathing was never a real issue for me either, about 1/2 the range on the 24-70 has basically no breathing.

I would happily shoot with the Birger / R1 again anytime.
 
So is there any way I can use L series Canon lenses on a RED that is SUPPORTED BY RED?
Any other manufacturers?
 
Shane Betts said:
Earlier on they allowed this with a disclaimer and a waiver but they eventually got sick of fixing up the screw-ups :redface: and pulled the pin on the whole shebang.
Click to expand...

This is far from an accurate statement. Just because you write it on the Internet, doesn't make it true...

david_winters said:
My Impero worked for about 3 weeks, until new Red firmware, then new Impero firmware, which bricked the Impero. It's sad, it was a really fantastic, cheap, solution. I shot many small national tv spots and web jobs with EF glass.
Click to expand...

We have been able to fix all but one of the Imperos (though sold by Birger, all were manufactured by VF) returned for service. That one had batteries that exploded, corroding the circuit board beyond repair. You should contact us directly so we can get you up and running again.
 
Erik Widding said:
We have been able to fix all but one of the Imperos (though sold by Birger, all were manufactured by VF) returned for service. That one had batteries that exploded, corroding the circuit board beyond repair. You should contact us directly so we can get you up and running again.
Click to expand...

Hi Erik,

Nice do you see you on this thread... My Birger-Impero was sent to Viewfactor for repair. It's been there for over a year with no recent response to phone calls or emails. I don't know how to get the thing back, short of driving up there unannounced.

Edit: My Birger version of the Impero is at VF, not the Birger lens mount.
 
david_winters said:
My Birger-Impero was sent to Viewfactor for repair. It's been there for over a year with no recent response to phone calls or emails. I don't know how to get the thing back, short of driving up there unannounced.
Click to expand...

This is unfortunate. I feel for you. We relieved VF of their warranty obligations. A bricked Impero must come back to Birger, as the boot software shipped by Birger was never provided to VF.

Hopefully this is not a long car ride... I wish I had been aware of this issue one year ago.
 
I'm shooting in a remote location and have to make decisions regarding back up--how quickly can the Nikon and PL mount be changed in the field, I'd like to stay with the same glass in case of complete camera failure and get another body but it seems impossible to find a back up body with the Nikon mount, this maybe something for a new thread but I since we are talking mounts here, I thought I'd ask. Thanks
 
So ERIK

If I buy a NEW Birger mount from you this WONT VOID my RED warranty or UPGRADE PATH to EPIC?

Also Someone is trying to sell me a second hand birger mount with a PL mount also.
How does this work? I have limited PL lenses but I have heaps on Canon lenses that i would really like to use
 
A new Birger mount will still void RED warranty and Epic upgrade unfortunately.

The issue isn't only the electronic connection. It also involves removal of the RED One's PL collimation mechanism. It was allowed for a period, but RED no longer allows this.
 
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