REDRAY Comments

[Joseph Clark]

Regarding the lens: how much more clear could Jarred be? The home projector has a built in lens.

And coming on here with 2 posts and citing "rumors" that this entire thread would negate, when you have never laid eyes on the output from this projector, is hardly going to win you any friends. :-(

I'm sorry if my post offended. I tried to word it in such a way so as not to do that. Apparently, I didn't succeed. I have two posts in this thread, but I've read it from start to finish, and I was still unclear about the lens. I realize that a sense of fraternity develops in a Forum such as this, and I may be perceived as an ill-informed outsider, but I thought my willingness to fly to California would be a strong enough sign of my sincerity. I read this thread from a different perspective than many of you, as a home theater enthusiast. Perhaps a separate thread would be more appropriate for people like me. My guess is that Red's foray into the home theater market with this projector is going to pull a lot more people like me into this sphere - though probably not too many willing to fly half way across the country to see it in person.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I'd like to note that there's a rumor floating (on another forum) that the home version of the laser does not come with a lens at all, and that it's going to add $5,000 to the basic $10,000 cost of the projector. If there's only one, non-interchangeable lens, that sounds like bad info. Can you clear that up?

Also, another rumor is that the native on/off contrast of the Red laser is low, under 2,000:1. I noted a couple of posts in the last few pages which talked about the demo that just happened at the Red studios, in which references were made to "milky blacks" not being a problem, and that participants preferred the laser projector to the Sony 4K projector that was used while the laser is down. Again, this would seem to fly in the face of such rumors.

I know, you shouldn't feel in any way compelled to respond to rumors. For the record, what I'd love to do is hop on a plane from St. Louis when the home projector is closer to final production, so I can see it in the Red studios personally, with my own "test" materials (commercial Blu-ray, Blu-ray 3D and my own 3D footage - low-end hobbyist grade though it is ). I don't rely on rumors to make purchase decisions like this, and I'm excited enough about it that I'd make the trip. I have an ex-student who works for Sony animation, so I could pay his family a visit and kill two birds with one stone. Would it be possible for me to set up such a demonstration when the projector is almost finished?

Nice seeing you here.

Good to get rid of false rumors.

As to the projector specs, none know them outside RED, yet - except that the consumer will get a fixed lens and the pro an interchangeable lens.

 

[Joseph Clark]

I think he read the rumors here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1394036/red-4k-3d-laser-projector-10k/570

...and came to this forum for answers. Nothing wrong with that. I'll be his friend

Yep. Exactly. And thanks.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I think he read the rumors here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1394036/red-4k-3d-laser-projector-10k/570

...and came to this forum for answers. Nothing wrong with that. I'll be his friend

Just seems to me before you walk into a party late and start throwing gossip and rumors around about the host, you might talk to a few people (i.e. read the thread) so your conversation can be a little better informed. There are a lot of rumors that get inflated because people are all too willing to toss them around without checking them out.

And, oddly, he cited the answer to his one of his own questions in his post - and still quoted the rumor. :huh:

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I read it more like he tries to warn red that there is misinformation out. Rather friendly, I'd say.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

I'm sorry if my post offended.

Years of having to defend RED from unfair criticism has made some people here a little aggressive when new members come here questioning RED. Sorry about that. I believe the RED projector demo at NAB used a RED PL mount lens. Obviously something else will be used when it is mass produced. No word yet about what the specs will be, but RED as all about quality and has promoted this as something that can be used for color grading so no doubt it will be good.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Years of having to defend RED from unfair criticism has made some people here a little aggressive when new members come here questioning RED. Sorry about that. I believe the RED projector demo at NAB used a RED PL mount lens. Obviously something else will be used when it is mass produced. No word yet about what the specs will be, but RED as all about quality and has promoted this as something that can be used for color grading so no doubt it will be good.

I think I remembered seeing a 50mm RED PL lens on the projector which was on display at NAB.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I'm sorry if my post offended. I tried to word it in such a way so as not to do that. Apparently, I didn't succeed. I have two posts in this thread, but I've read it from start to finish, and I was still unclear about the lens. I realize that a sense of fraternity develops in a Forum such as this, and I may be perceived as an ill-informed outsider, but I thought my willingness to fly to California would be a strong enough sign of my sincerity. I read this thread from a different perspective than many of you, as a home theater enthusiast. Perhaps a separate thread would be more appropriate for people like me. My guess is that Red's foray into the home theater market with this projector is going to pull a lot more people like me into this sphere - though probably not too many willing to fly half way across the country to see it in person.

I appreciate your response. Not so much "offended" as "annoyed." There are a lot of of people who drop by here just to stir things up with BS from other cites, full well knowing its not true. Trolls, if you will. It bothers me because sometimes these types of "rumor" post get picked up in a game of telephone and twisted and rehashed until they take on an air of truth and spread nothing but FUD. I care becuase I am a Scarlet owner and hate coing across people who cite all this rumor bullshit as to why this camera or that system is "no good."

Sorry. I probably came on too strong to someone, presumably like yourself, who actually is interested in RED products but I would say it is a good approach to read the thread through and do follow up research before throwing the rumors up for "discussion" since it inevitably gives then an air of legitimacy. Just my take on it.

EDIT: I am probably just anxious waiting for Build 4. LOL

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

Mr. Clark has just said (several hours ago) on the AVS forum:

"The on/off of my Panasonic 4000 was just barely on the threshold of what I find acceptable in a home theater projector. The JVC RS40/45 caused me to slip into a contrast coma.

The Epson 6010 that I'm using now is somewhere in between, but it's a good compromise given how important 3D is to me. If the Red laser can achieve a native contrast in the ballpark of the Epson, and be brighter (which is probably a given), it will most likely be my next projector - especially since it's passive 3D."


So, at least we now know what he is interested in.
___________________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

 

[Joseph Clark]

Years of having to defend RED from unfair criticism has made some people here a little aggressive when new members come here questioning RED. Sorry about that. I believe the RED projector demo at NAB used a RED PL mount lens. Obviously something else will be used when it is mass produced. No word yet about what the specs will be, but RED as all about quality and has promoted this as something that can be used for color grading so no doubt it will be good.

Yes, I've read these rumors many times on AVS, from people who are supposed to be "reliable sources." I wanted to find out for sure, and I'll correct the bad information. Again, for the record, I've read this thread from start to finish, although I'm sure I missed some things. As a former teacher, I think it's important to "do my homework."

My questions were in no way intended as criticisms of Red, but perhaps a thread devoted more to the home theater enthusiast, or just those who are interested in the home version of the laser, might be more appropriate for questions such as mine. Those of you who know Red well could avoid it, and keep your blood pressure down. It's bound to be full of flame-worthy misinformation and criticism.

If I can, though, I have one more question for those of you who may bridge that ugly gap between content producer and home theater enthusiast: how does the Red laser compare to other, more traditional projectors from the likes of JVC, Sony, Sharp and Panasonic, in terms of native contrast? That's my frame of reference, since I've owned some $40,000 worth of them over the last few years. I'm not looking for test numbers, just a few subjective observations from people who've seen them. I'd love to hear comparative impressions from colorists and serious shooters.

Then I'll go away for a while, or wait for a more appropriate thread to spring up.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

If I can, though, I have one more question for those of you who may bridge that ugly gap between content producer and home theater enthusiast: how does the Red laser compare to other, more traditional projectors from the likes of JVC, Sony, Sharp and Panasonic, in terms of native contrast? That's my frame of reference, since I've owned some $40,000 worth of them over the last few years. I'm not looking for test numbers, just a few subjective observations from people who've seen them. I'd love to hear comparative impressions from colorists and serious shooters.

RED showed off their projector at NAB early this year and a number of people commented that it's the best 3D they have ever seen. I've read just about everything on this forum about REDRAY and never once found a single person who was critical of the contrast. The demo used a 1.5MB/s source encded with an early version of the .RED codec. The quality is going to be better now.

Here are some quotes from people in the industry:

Stephen Pizzo of Element Technica and 3eality Technica describes it:

Comparing it to traditional professional systems is completely inadequate. I have never witnessed 3D that was as bright or brighter as the best 2D projections until now. It generated the best color, best dynamic range and best images I have ever seen in 3D or even 2D.

And Mark Pederson of OffHollywood concurs:

You have to see it to believe it. I have NEVER seen better projection – from any projector – at any price point. I can’t stop thinking about it. It was beyond stunning.

You will definitely be able to see the projector, REDRAY and ODEMAX in action at NAB in Las Vegas April 8th to 11th. Will it be available before that? No idea... We'll see.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Don't forget that image quality aside (which btw, is astounding) The Red projector/redray will be able to project 3D without relying on alternating L/R images. Both eyes can be projected simultaneously. Impressive.

 

[Joseph Clark]

Many thanks, guys. I haven't been able to attend NAB for the past few years. Hopefully, I can get there this coming April.

I'm definitely interested in passive 3D. At present, I have 3 active 3D displays, and a passive LG - nothing on a pro level. The LG passive is incredibly easy on the eyes, and it has me sold on passive technology, but the contrast (along with a couple of other things) sucks. I edit 3D on it with Edius (again, hobbyist grade 3D, but I still have fun).

 

[Phil McCarty]

[Another slightly different perspective of the RedRay event Friday.]

Phil Holland wrote a comprehensive take of Friday's presentation, so I'm not going to touch any of the technical aspects of what's going on. Besides, I shouldn't. Not my wheelhouse. If you use the word "codec" more than once or twice a day, this might not be all that interesting for you.

There's one thing that kind gets left out of some of these reviews, and maybe it's because it's harder to print on a spec sheet.

After LOOM ended, the lights went up, and I heard a voice to my right. "What do you guys think? See what we've been doing in our little world?" I didn't know him by face, but recognized him from earlier events. [Turns out: Ted]

What I also recognized in his face was an expression that I've come to think of as "REDFace."

[No, I don't expect that to catch on. It's a terribly uninspired nickname.]

I think I first noticed REDface on Jim at the Scarlet event or maybe it was the DSMC event? Jarred has a pretty terminal case of REDface as well. In case you weren't there, you've probably seen REDface in other contexts. It's the same face your loved ones have when they watch you open -that- gift they picked out for you. The gift that they KNOW they fucking nailed. The one they've been sitting on for MONTHS and eagerly awaiting the day they can see your face when YOU see it.

It's infectious when people are enthusiastic about the things that they're engaged in. I went to an IATSE event a few weeks ago when they showed some 48fps content, and discussed new compression codecs (that's the second time I'm using that word today, now I'm done with it. If anyone asks me what H.264 is I'm going to shrug and do a dance) and the pending problems with bandwidth and the limitations of DCP, etc. It was interesting, but I also kinda wanted to slit my throat a little.

[Not ear to ear, just ear to chin.]

These guys are just so damned excited to share what they've been working on you can tell it just KILLS them to sit on it.

It's not a "WOO HOO we're gonna fucking kill [company] or AW YEAH we're gonna be PRINTING money" motivation which is so popular and played out for some industries. It's more of a childlike (but not childish) "We made something cool and we can't wait for you to see it." which is a hard thing to hold onto as an adult, and harder still to create in other adults.

I dig it very much.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

In case you weren't there, you've probably seen REDface in other contexts. It's the same face your loved ones have when they watch you open -that- gift they picked out for you. The gift that they KNOW they fucking nailed. The one they've been sitting on for MONTHS and eagerly awaiting the day they can see your face when YOU see it.

Hahahah! So well put man, great post.

 

[Phil McCarty]

Wait, I do have one thing to review. It's a non-technical review of REDLaser, and since they weren't able to show REDLaser it's obviously a review by inference.
----

After they showed the animated movies, they showed a clip of Avatar -- the scene where Jake Sully and Zoe Saldana (it's totally okay to do that) are running around at night.

You remember this scene. It's the gorgeous one with the phosphorescent plants and animals with their own illumination. There's also a dizzying view from above as JS almost falls off the tree.

As I was watched, my thoughts gradually shifted from technical appreciation to emotional engagement...

-- "Man I can't believe they could be streaming this over the internet"
-- "Crap I forgot how gorgeous this is."
-- "Wow, I really want to see Avatar in theaters again."

And then after all of that annoying inner monologue I started to just drop it and enjoy Pandora. I was ready to sit back and watch the rest of the two plus hours. I was ready for the destruction of the tree, ready to roll my eyes when they said unobtanium, ready to cry (manly tears) when NotRipley doesn't make it. I was so ready for the adventure and then --

THEY SHUT IT OFF.

The guy (whose name I've forgotten) was frustrated. He MAY have been disgusted. He was definitely frustrated.

"Stop stop stop... it's... it's not supposed to look like that." Frustrated RED Guy says, "It looks better than that. Stop. Turn it off." He mentioned something about the colors popping more (they were popping just fine I thought. clearly, I'm a plebeian).

I guess the moral of the story is this:

I haven't seen REDLaser, but I bet it's badass.

 

[Dan Frenkel]

JIM

JIM

If this doesn't change things... I don't know what will.

Jim

I would love to do some tests with the 4K Laser projector on my hologram reflective & interactive projection film. I think it would be mind blowing to see a life size human hologram of a "once famous" actor or world leader speak to you in 4K Resolution with laser projection from RED. The images we are producing are PART CGI PART REAL!!! Its going to make things really interesting this 2013!!

Congrats Jim and team for these innovations that will surely be huge game changers to our industry in our time. The REDVOLUTION is here!!!

-DAN FRENKEL

 

[Dan Frenkel]

LOVE JIMS CAR!!! DO YOU TAKE IT SHOPPING!! I WANT ONE TOO!!!! LIVING IN LONG BEACH CAN BE A WAR ZONE. LOL

 

[Gunleik Groven]

LOVE JIMS CAR!!! DO YOU TAKE IT SHOPPING!! I WANT ONE TOO!!!! LIVING IN LONG BEACH CAN BE A WAR ZONE. LOL

Thought that was Jarreds, but they possibly have one each?

 

[Lliam Worthington]

[Another slightly different perspective of the RedRay event Friday.]

Phil Holland wrote a comprehensive take of Friday's presentation, so I'm not going to touch any of the technical aspects of what's going on. Besides, I shouldn't. Not my wheelhouse. If you use the word "codec" more than once or twice a day, this might not be all that interesting for you.

There's one thing that kind gets left out of some of these reviews, and maybe it's because it's harder to print on a spec sheet.

After LOOM ended, the lights went up, and I heard a voice to my right. "What do you guys think? See what we've been doing in our little world?" I didn't know him by face, but recognized him from earlier events. [Turns out: Ted]

What I also recognized in his face was an expression that I've come to think of as "REDFace."

[No, I don't expect that to catch on. It's a terribly uninspired nickname.]

I think I first noticed REDface on Jim at the Scarlet event or maybe it was the DSMC event? Jarred has a pretty terminal case of REDface as well. In case you weren't there, you've probably seen REDface in other contexts. It's the same face your loved ones have when they watch you open -that- gift they picked out for you. The gift that they KNOW they fucking nailed. The one they've been sitting on for MONTHS and eagerly awaiting the day they can see your face when YOU see it.

It's infectious when people are enthusiastic about the things that they're engaged in. I went to an IATSE event a few weeks ago when they showed some 48fps content, and discussed new compression codecs (that's the second time I'm using that word today, now I'm done with it. If anyone asks me what H.264 is I'm going to shrug and do a dance) and the pending problems with bandwidth and the limitations of DCP, etc. It was interesting, but I also kinda wanted to slit my throat a little.

[Not ear to ear, just ear to chin.]

These guys are just so damned excited to share what they've been working on you can tell it just KILLS them to sit on it.

It's not a "WOO HOO we're gonna fucking kill [company] or AW YEAH we're gonna be PRINTING money" motivation which is so popular and played out for some industries. It's more of a childlike (but not childish) "We made something cool and we can't wait for you to see it." which is a hard thing to hold onto as an adult, and harder still to create in other adults.

I dig it very much.

Great post Phil. I value this highly too.