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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDRAY Comments

Bob Gundu said:
So we have to first render out a Tiff or DPX sequence and then use RC-X to convert to .RED? That's a few too many steps for convenience... Having conversion from R3D files is not very practical is it? Most files will be going through CC in Davinci or similar.
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Suggestions for other formats?
 
Rob Lohman said:
Suggestions for other formats?
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I can see the desire for ProRes4444 being a "thing" industry wide. I think most houses will finish via TIF or DPX, so that's all gravy. TGA is still used by some folks I work with and that might be something to look at.


Beyond RR Encoder inside RedCine-X Pro the "killer app" would be the ability to have .RED encode via Adobe Media Encoder and similar programs.
 
Rob Lohman said:
Any is a big word. Out of the gate it will be DPX, TIFF & R3D it looks like.
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On the bright side, you can get to that point from just about anywhere. :)


We have not announced anything on this (outside RC-X, of course). Don't want to get people's hopes up.
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Fair enough, I was probably reading into some of it too much. Are there plans to incorporate RED encoding functions into the R3D SDK or perhaps a separate .RED encoder API for those who wish to incorporate into their software?
 
Jarred Land said:
BTW.. we are trucking along on the REDRAY side, and along the way some of you wil be happy that we have added 2K support as well as H.264 support... Image quality just keeps getting better and better and Rob is almost done with the encoder in RCX.. its going to be a pretty fucking badass system. Its kinda hard to keep track of all the 4K panels that are out there but we have tested on most of them.
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may be too late in the game, but maybe for an update (and maybe already in the encoding) - how about facial recognition/tracking so the most important details are preserved with enough data?
 
Bob Gundu said:
So we have to first render out a Tiff or DPX sequence and then use RC-X to convert to .RED? That's a few too many steps for convenience... Having conversion from R3D files is not very practical is it? Most files will be going through CC in Davinci or similar.
Click to expand...

Other transcode from formats are on the list.. but as Rob said it wont be out of the gate.


And about the REDRAY disc format.. Its not going to happen. Unless someone comes out with a optical disk that is incredibly awesome I wouldn't bet on them being used for anything for much longer.. as soon as Video games gets over them those 5 inch shiny circles likely will go the way of cassete tapes and the do-do bird.

The REDRAY player does have a SD slot on the front though.. as well as a USB port... so you can create physical assets for distribution if you want to. they make WORM SD cards ( write once read many ) so you could do some pretty cool little SD card packages with your films or reels on them to hand out to people.
 
Bob Gundu said:
So we have to first render out a Tiff or DPX sequence and then use RC-X to convert to .RED? That's a few too many steps for convenience... Having conversion from R3D files is not very practical is it? Most files will be going through CC in Davinci or similar.
Click to expand...

way easier than making a DCP... plus, i'd recommend you store a master sequence of tiff, dpx, or exr anyways. course, i'd love to be able to run multiple versions through adobe media encoder in one export.

Jarred Land said:
the do-do bird
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:(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoRalobIcME

:)
 
Rob Lohman said:
Suggestions for other formats?
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CineForm RGB444 12 bit lin or log, the same as single frame sequence in DPC format (aka DPX-C).
We have a deep knowledge of that workflow and it is a very good format to DI, as you can decode it very fast and it has data rates comparable to JPEG2000 files.

Regards,
Axel
 
Rob Lohman said:
Suggestions for other formats?
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Prores 4k 4:2:2 and 4:2:2 hq for those not so complex edits that don't require big post house mastering- these are indie friendly formats. Prores 4:4:4 also, of course.

Agreed with a possible .red setting for Adobe Media Encoder and Compressor.

Tiff sequence support is good news!
 
Strange. Was the special box for that particular model or all the Toshiba's you tested?
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One function that interface box supports is 3840 x 2160 @ 60 fps. Most other panels are limited to 30fps as they only support 1 active HDMI 1.4 input at a time. So though it requires 4 x HDMI 1.3 cables, it does offer native 60 fps...
 
Stuart English said:
One function that interface box supports is 3840 x 2160 @ 60 fps. Most other panels are limited to 30fps as they only support 1 active HDMI 1.4 input at a time. So though it requires 4 x HDMI 1.3 cables, it does offer native 60 fps...
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Very interesting.

With REDRAY having 4 x HDMI outputs, couldn't you just skip this box?
 
Rob Lohman said:
Suggestions for other formats?
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For this to gain ground quickly, prores 4444 is an obvious request.

I am fine with SANS and RAIDs and all, but if you wanna hit the ground more than stumbling, prores is the best compomise out there.

16bit 4k tiffs are 72MBs a frame...
That's not really a viable startingpoint for many...

Which brings me to the next line of thought.

Does it accept "acts" like DCPs. It's a bitch to have a buggy TIFF/DPX in the last scene, and have to re-encode the full thing (which I have seen in DCP encodes...)

AND
RCX does some basic renderfarming... Is this possible also with the .red encoding?

Gunleik
 
Axel Mertes said:
CineForm RGB444 12 bit lin or log, the same as single frame sequence in DPC format (aka DPX-C).
We have a deep knowledge of that workflow and it is a very good format to DI, as you can decode it very fast and it has data rates comparable to JPEG2000 files.

Regards,
Axel
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I like this, too.
But CineForm and RED has a history of not getting too close...

Could possibly change in either direction with the GoPro acquisition... :)
 
Rob Lohman said:
Suggestions for other formats?
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Please talk to Avid and make sure you support DNxHD when they do a version that supports 4K. Since DNxHD = ProRes without the gamma issues, sounds good to me.

Pretty sure that Avid will support it by the time 4K becomes mainstream - eg when Peter Jackson actually finishes The Hobbit in it! I'm not putting on my "big boy pants" until he does. Hopefully sometime in 2013?

And don't take this the wrong way... but h.265 of course.

h.265 is going to become the standard. RedRay will always be a niche unless you guys open it up and allow normal PCs, tablets, PS4, etc to play it. And even then it may still be a niche because you guys are too late to stop h.265.

I can think of quite a few use cases where we will have a well-encoded 4K h.265 for playback on many devices... and suddenly we'll want to make a RedRay version to show to someone or for a festival, etc.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Under windows i would love to see support for VFW-codecs, for import and .RED-encodings and for normal exports too. Being bound to Quicktime for h264 exports isn't the best thing... ;)
 
I personally don't mind if .RED is a niche codec. I'm paying a price for a RedRay player that gives me access to that codec. If I want to show my stuff on u-toob or some other venue, there are plenty of codecs available for doing that. What I do want are different ways to ENCODE to .RED. Make it easy to encode, but proprietary to decode and I think as content providers we will have a built-in safety net against piracy. And I think the market may be consolidated into one that will make it profitable for content providers who use the RedRay way to show their work.
 
Graham Morton said:
Cineform, you know the original lossless codec prores was copied from.
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LOL!

Aft breaking them down (not the Cineform), I allways thought THAT was DNX(HD)

They share the "powdery" degradation, at least...

I thought Cineform was wavelet based.... Isn't it?

(Ignorant here...) :-)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CineForm

That could of course be wrong...

Otoh that explains why david newman/cineform is credited in the redraw patent, and why there was a bit of tension as to debayering and matrix routines between Cineform and RED early on...

But prores is not a wavelet codec...
 
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