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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDRAY Comments

Does the RedRay player include a 4K upscaler ?
Or did you upscaled 2K content prior to using them with the player ?
 
Keep sending in the questions guys, but we'l probably wait to provide some answers rather than scatter those throughout the thread.
 
Stuart English said:
Keep sending in the questions guys, but we'l probably wait to provide some answers rather than scatter those throughout the thread.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. As it stands, RedUser is both the best and worst place to get info about the RED program - best because you have Stuart, Jarred, Rob, Graeme, etc interacting with the user base, worst because some of the most valuable info is scattered throughout the site.

In any case, perhaps in Crucial Ordinance, it would be great to have curated discussions about key elements of how to get the most out of the disruptive technology RED excels at.

Cheers - #19
 
clicking on the little RED TEAM button inside a thread is pretty helpful skipping through to all the posts from us, you loose the conjecture of course but if you just want the official punchlines its a good way to go.
 
Jarred Land said:
clicking on the little RED TEAM button inside a thread is pretty helpful skipping through to all the posts from us, you loose the conjecture of course but if you just want the official punchlines its a good way to go.
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Jarred:

I designed something that could help parse the raw data into information. We can discuss it the next time I see you -- not a sales pitch -- but it is something I think will be extremely necessary given the industry's trajectory.

Best,

Eryc
 
The Red Team "skip" tool is great. That said, in some cases the context embedded in the adjacent posts aids understanding.

I get that RED is still developing the RRencode tool and definitive answers may still be a ways off. That said, for those of us looking to encode a lot of .RED files as soon as RRencode ships some sense of which resources are most critical to performance would be very helpful. As an example, when working with R3D files sans Rocket the CPU horsepower is the biggest determinant of performance since the GPU is not involved with the initial de-compression step which is typically the limiting factor. IAC, looking forward to guidance on all this so we can hit the ground running.

Cheers - #19
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
The Red Team "skip" tool is great. That said, in some cases the context embedded in the adjacent posts aids understanding.

I get that RED is still developing the RRencode tool and definitive answers may still be a ways off. That said, for those of us looking to encode a lot of .RED files as soon as RRencode ships some sense of which resources are most critical to performance would be very helpful. As an example, when working with R3D files sans Rocket the CPU horsepower is the biggest determinant of performance since the GPU is not involved with the initial de-compression step which is typically the limiting factor. IAC, looking forward to guidance on all this so we can hit the ground running.

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...

+1

I completely agree. Answers like these will be invaluable to anyone attempting to leverage the most from the camera system. We understand the implications surrounding the pending distribution network, and I for one, would like to be a part of the first wave of RED content creators.

As awesome as the camera system is, there is a definite price to pay when building and designing a post-production process that can leverage all those pixel filled images. If indies are going to be successful, it seems there will need to be baselines in place that speak to particular use cases. For example: A hobbyist will have very different needs from a studio shoot, and likely be able to allow more processing time sans client-based deadlines. On the contrary, a small to mid-size production outfit, with modest post capabilities looking to do live action integration with 3D for ad agencies and provide scalable deliverables is going to have some pretty different requirements.

Down the road, some of these hardware/software considerations may disappear, but for now...I think many of us may be trying to eke as much as possible from less than optimal situations. The cool thing about the RED program is that there is versatility, and a built-in offline solution. That written, I still don't feel best practice knowledge is widespread. In the big scheme of things, the camera program is still in its infancy (read: in relation to worldwide adoption on a consumer level).

The points you bring up, Blair, are the beginnings of some kind of workflow/processing document. Unfortunately, the level of complexity quickly ramps up to near impossible, and if I'm feeling overwhelmed with the amount of information I need to digest -- I know I'm not alone. While there are some people out there that can direct at award-winning levels, write, light, code, draw, set design, build their own IT infrastructure, manage render farms, and know all the hotkeys in every piece of software on the market...most of us are going to need some assistance in at least a couple areas. :)
 
Colleagues are competition, but not the enemy. It's time for indies to really start working together -- once that truly starts to happen that is where the real revolution will take place. Solidarity, even if in small numbers, will be completely necessary.
 
Ray Ray

Ray Ray

Eryc Tramonn said:
+1
(snip) ...invaluable to anyone attempting to leverage the most from the camera system. We understand the implications surrounding the pending distribution network, and I for one, would like to be a part of the first wave of RED content creators. (snip)
The points you bring up, Blair, are the beginnings of some kind of workflow/processing document. Unfortunately, the level of complexity quickly ramps up to near impossible, and if I'm feeling overwhelmed with the amount of information I need to digest -- I know I'm not alone. (snip)
Click to expand...

FWIW I do not think encoding .RED files will be particularly difficult, its just another file format after all. I'm guessing that the resident RRencode encoding tool inside RedCineX-Pro will have a proper GUI, follow most existing RED conventions and be fairly simple to work with.

Just trying to allocate resources wisely from a hardware perspective. With unlimited funds I'd just have my good buddies over at GlobalStor send me over their top of the line workstation and never look back. That said, here in real world ROI-ville I'd like to apportion more of my budget to those areas of the configuration that have the greatest impact on encoding performance. Sandy Bridge CPUs, Tesla GPUs, mega RAM, ??? From Jarred's post I got the idea that RED is busy optimizing RRencode performance so I'm looking for direction in selecting hardware.

HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE: if a $8,000 workstation is only 3x faster at encoding .RED files than a $500 PC then I'd rather spend $4,000 on 8 cheap PCs. I'd save $4,000 and be done in half the time. OTOH, if a $5,000 workstation with 4 gaming GPUs is 10x faster than a low end PC... Etc.

Cheers - #19
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Gunleik Groven said:
As to the projector specs, none know them outside RED, yet - except that the consumer will get a fixed lens and the pro an interchangeable lens.
Click to expand...

Projector lens considerations:

Wide zoom range lenses are best to provide installation flexibility, but also cause a wider variation in light output. Short throws will likely be way brighter than long throws. But with somewhat lower contrast. Mostly due to variations in lens aperture affecting volume vs. directionality of light.

Interchangable lenses can be optimized better for specific throw distance ranges. Mounting has to be very precise and repeatable for tight focus, but I wouldn't think that should be much of a challenge for camera/lens makers.
Click to expand...
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
FWIW I do not think encoding .RED files will be particularly difficult, its just another file format after all. I'm guessing that the resident RRencode encoding tool inside RedCineX-Pro will have a proper GUI, follow most existing RED conventions and be fairly simple to work with.
Click to expand...

All of that I can confirm....
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
FWIW I do not think encoding .RED files will be particularly difficult, its just another file format after all. I'm guessing that the resident RRencode encoding tool inside RedCineX-Pro will have a proper GUI, follow most existing RED conventions and be fairly simple to work with.
Click to expand...

Never intended to suggest anything other than the above quote. Working with R3D files is painless, and I don't expect the actual transcoding process to .RED files to be anything more than push-button simple -- as suggested by Stuart.

However, your quote that follows is the concern. As you suggest, I am looking for baselines on the hardware/software end that will maximize the return for any given investment. Given unlimited funds, we could all run out and build custom rigs with petabytes of RAM; I get that. However, there are individuals purchasing cameras that have not adequately considered the impact to their post workflow -- and their wallets. Although such considerations are ultimately the buyer's responsibility, the amount of research not only seems daunting, but with tech constantly improving -- it's a job unto itself.


Blair S. Paulsen said:
Just trying to allocate resources wisely from a hardware perspective. With unlimited funds I'd just have my good buddies over at GlobalStor send me over their top of the line workstation and never look back. That said, here in real world ROI-ville I'd like to apportion more of my budget to those areas of the configuration that have the greatest impact on encoding performance. Sandy Bridge CPUs, Tesla GPUs, mega RAM, ??? From Jarred's post I got the idea that RED is busy optimizing RRencode performance so I'm looking for direction in selecting hardware.
Click to expand...


The hypothetical you present below perfectly illustrates some the potential use case considerations.

Blair S. Paulsen said:
HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE: if a $8,000 workstation is only 3x faster at encoding .RED files than a $500 PC then I'd rather spend $4,000 on 8 cheap PCs. I'd save $4,000 and be done in half the time. OTOH, if a $5,000 workstation with 4 gaming GPUs is 10x faster than a low end PC... Etc.

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...


So, for those in "limited" funds/limited knowledge situations, it would be nice to develop a system of documentation which details system configurations usable at various budgetary levels, and that also shed light on the tradeoffs to be expected. In your hypothetical, you present three distinct routes that could be taken - and this perfectly represents what I believe the majority of users will need until turnkey solutions are so inexpensive that it won't matter.

Thanks for the thoughts, sir.

Eryc
 
Interesting. One of the comments indicated that eyeIO is based upon the new 4K transmission codec that is currently proposed, namely: H.265 or HEVC (which still "up-in-the-air" so to speak). Supposedly it is a 10 bit 4:2:2 codec (which I believe is actually below the limitation of the current HDMI spec.) The exciting thing about ODEMAX and the .RED codec (as far as I understand it) is that the .RED codec actually has a higher internal bit rate and color space that exceeds the HDMI spec, so, if your content is then screened via a RED projector (not using the "limitations" of HDMI to connect to a 4K panel) you should get the benefit of the higher bit rate and color space of the .RED encoded content.


__________________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8
 
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Have you read this article? http://eetimes.jp/ee/articles/1212/19/news019.html it's Japanese, but google translate:
"achieve higher resolution that exceeds the theoretical limit", School of Engineering is a new proposal in the super-resolution for 4K TV
4K-ready model has already appeared as a top-end model of home television. Currently 4K video content is not on the market but almost. Expanding the high-definition video signal therefore, improve the image quality is displayed using the "super-resolution technique." Kogakuin research group has developed a new method in the super-resolution technology called "beyond the limits of conventional theory."
[Keiichi Suzuki, EE Times Japan]


According to Professor Koshi, can not play component high definition beyond the Nyquist frequency of the image that make up the image, super-resolution techniques old, it has been that it is theoretical limit of high definition. Proprietary schema Kogakuin is proposed, (referred to in this paper is referred to as a "super-resolution" Nonlinear this method) to produce a component of high-definition beyond the Nyquist frequency by applying a nonlinear signal processing simple for this. In existing methods of high definition level can not be achieved can be no sense of blur, crisp and sharp high-resolution image is a feature that can play.

(skip)



Take a technique called "super-resolution reconfigurable" super-resolution technology is another old. A 4K television that is currently on the market for consumers, the series has been adopted by the reconstruction-based super-resolution technology of this "Toshiba (REGZA) REGZA" for example. Of the (frames), but method combined extract the highest part of the resolution from multiple frames close in time, that "reconstruction" the single frame with improved definition a number of images to form the picture. While growing, the feeling of the image resolution exceeding the resolution of the original image is not in principle can create. Component high definition beyond the Nyquist frequency of the original image "is not reproduced. Therefore, remains of the original image. Simply the amount of information processed image has not only been extended significantly the original image (Professor Koshi) ".

Type super-resolution reconstruction and constraints we can not be applied in principle and challenges circuits and software responsible for the processing becomes complicated, the still picture of the original image to be the material of the reconstruction because there is only one addition There was.

All issues can be resolved

super-resolution is proposed nonlinear Kogakuin, being able to solve all the problems with these conventional methods have. The Specifically, it is possible to play back high-definition components beyond the Nyquist frequency does not exist, the original image is possible. Resolution is improved in other words. I noise is less likely to occur at the edge of the image, which can be processed on, and can also be applied to still images and easy circuits and software.

Heck, "and to play high-definition components above the Nyquist frequency", does that mean I wonder?

When performing a sampling process to convert the analog image to a digital image, (the reciprocal of the sampling interval corresponds to the resolution) the Nyquist frequency and the sampling frequency is a frequency corresponding to 1/2. Frequency components of the image of the original analog component exceeds the Nyquist frequency, can not be reproduced faithfully as the original signal during playback. This is a well-known sampling theorem. Same effect in reverse, if you can play some kind of technique components above the Nyquist frequency, then the higher the sampling frequency was obtained mean.

By a simple non-linear signal processing the video signal after the larger group Prof. Koshi was confirmed to be able to play back more than the Nyquist frequency component. After the third power on is divided into two systems video signal, and cuts the low-frequency component, on the other hand, to adjust the intensity further, more specifically, he put the limiter to fit below a predetermined value. On top of that, I'm with the other processing that the sum was divided. The output signal of this process include the components beyond the Nyquist frequency that is not included in the input video signal. Although not able to produce the original analog image information that is not captured by the camera to the subject of the image, the effect of increasing the resolution of the enlarged digital video can be obtained. In addition, the paper has already been previously announced For more information on this non-linear signal processing ( related articles ).


continued,

My Point here is: 4K transmission and Broadcasting will be ready within 2 years.

Will be publish eetimes in English edition soon.
 
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