REDRAY Comments

[Elsie N]

I'm going to repeat a question I asked much earlier in this thread because to my knowledge it hasn't been answered yet. What is the relative speed of the encoder, either in frames per second or approximate encoding time per, say, 1 hour of material? And does that speed scale with hardware, and if so, which hardware? In other words, is the encoder CUDA enabled, does it benefit from additional GPU's, is the license per processor, etc?

Mike, the closest I remember anyone coming to answer this question was when Jarred said encoding is slow-slow at present because they were trying to nail down the quality aspect first. They are working on optimizing speed presently. I guess they are just not ready to release those figures yet as they appear to be a moving target.

 

[Todd T]

This is the initial generation of the framework, it will be driven by very motivated customers (i.e "early adopters" and commercial venues)
So initially it looks like a B2B. Once the startup costs are paid off, as we saw the the price of the cameras, there is the possibility to reach a wider customer base via reduced price points.

The USB stick will be unneeded; the redray exists in its present form because no other physical interface between the content and the (soon to be available) displays currently exists. Once 4k computers are available you will use your exisiting Internet connection (wired/wifi/3G/4G) and a dowlnloadable codec to stream content, or the 4K capable displays will eventually have the technology built in ( á la Netflix app) No need for a redray 3G device.

I believe RR/Odemax is mainly a business-2-business thing. „Normal“ users or let‘s say the masses don‘t pay $1,450 for another box in their living room. 4K TVs for less than $2k will take at least another 2 years until late 2014. It is likely that many people will own an iPad 4K or MacbookPro 4K before they buy a 4K TV. And with upcoming „real“ 4K GoPros and 4K DSLRs iTunes will support 4K as well. So the „Normal Enduser“ will then stream 4K wirelessly to his iDevice without an additional box.

The key advantage of RR over platforms like iTunes/YouTube are the highly compressed 4K files at 2.5MB/s. A RR 4G/USB-Stick that connects to Odemax and decodes/plays .Red files for less than $100 together with an Odemax subscription model would be nice. But that‘s wishful thinking.

 

[Al Lougher]

Will the short films selected on the Shot on Red Film Festival be available when the Odemax site launches?

Take a look at a screengrab of the interface. I see "Shot on Red Festival" channel there. Of course, these could just be mock ups. Who knows..

 

[Todd T]

I'm would guess that commercial content will be dealt with accordingly.
Anyone who thinks they can post a video that is a commercial, price it for free, and try to use the ODEMAX framework as a free delivery mechanism will most likely be very disappointed.

That said, there are many opportunities for product placement within your video. Especially since Jarred says there are comprehensive reporting capabilities. So you can put a reasonable price on your film, you get revenue, ODEMAX get's their cut, and you have an additional income stream from product placement.

Will commercials be tacked on to one's content? Can one sell commercial content for inclusion in a project? In other words, how might the commercial virus enter into the game? And what sort of content controlling factors are in place, if any? Is this truly a free for all?

 

[Christopher Mills]

Ok.. Here's what I want to know (these are leading questions, but I want clarification):

1) Does this device do anything for me on a set?

2) Does this device do anything for me in my pre-delivery workflow (Editorial before delivery)

3) Does this let me watch projects I have shot in 4K on a 4K monitor?

4)Does Odemax function as a competitor to other online means of direct marketing projects I produce?

5)Does Odemax function as a subscription service for me to watch other 4k content, or is it intended to be pay per view

6)Is REDlaser intended to return to front projection home theater, instead of Plasma or LCD screens or rear projection screen systems?

Hope RED team folks respond to the above questions..
thanks guys.

 

[Stuart English]

.... It is likely that many people will own an iPad 4K or MacbookPro 4K before they buy a 4K TV. And with upcoming „real“ 4K GoPros and 4K DSLRs iTunes will support 4K as well. So the „Normal Enduser“ will then stream 4K wirelessly to his iDevice without an additional box.

You may be right, I personally doubt it, but we'll see..

The key advantage of RR over platforms like iTunes/YouTube are the highly compressed 4K files at 2.5MB/s.....

You left out cinematic image quality.

Quality (image quality) sells across many markets - advertising, fashion, travel, medical, sports and of course commercial and home theatres.

Crappy highly compressed picures don't.

 

[PatrickFaith]

So looking at all the video wall monitors out there.
Please chime in with suggestions.

Quickly found this one:

http://www.samsunglfd.com/product/feature.do?modelCd=460UXN-2

Thanks much, this looks like a great idea ... I'm going to be researching wall matrix monitors now I didn't realize they had monitors where the edges line up and create a very small pixel gap. I BTW see this as a business/corporate deployment option, rather then theaters or home, for this player.

 

[Zach Hilton]

So looking at all the video wall monitors out there.
Please chime in with suggestions.

Quickly found this one:

http://www.samsunglfd.com/product/feature.do?modelCd=460UXN-2

I've used these LFD monitors in many digital signage installs. They have an OK distribution system / network where you can push content to multiple locations, it was a little klunky though. In the end we went with a different solution at that time, and just used the monitors as monitors mainly because these monitors scale up your content, so even if you have a 5x5 video wall, it scales your 1080p content to fill it. They also have a computer built into each TV which added another link in the chain for potential issues. There are other widely used solutions out there, but back when Red announced the Redray player, we specifically asked and wanted digital signage applications. I don't do that anymore but it is still pretty exciting stuff! Red should show off their new system at DSE 2013

 

[Stuart English]

... do you need the rr to play the movies you encoded on your pc? (Im getting the player after i get the bm 4k card.)

Can i deliver a .red file on a usb stick to a client and all he/she need to play it back is ... a ... decoder plugin ....

Yes

No

- because real time 4K .RED file playback requires a REDRAY player.

 

[John Aldrich]

No

- because real time 4K .RED file playback requires a REDRAY player.

Ah ha, so that would be a reason to use the player as opposed to outputting the playback signal of a computer with the RREncoder license. Smart.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

I believe RR/Odemax is mainly a business-2-business thing. „Normal“ users or let‘s say the masses don‘t pay $1,450 for another box in their living room. 4K TVs for less than $2k will take at least another 2 years until late 2014. It is likely that many people will own an iPad 4K or MacbookPro 4K before they buy a 4K TV. And with upcoming „real“ 4K GoPros and 4K DSLRs iTunes will support 4K as well. So the „Normal Enduser“ will then stream 4K wirelessly to his iDevice without an additional box.

The key advantage of RR over platforms like iTunes/YouTube are the highly compressed 4K files at 2.5MB/s. A RR 4G/USB-Stick that connects to Odemax and decodes/plays .Red files for less than $100 together with an Odemax subscription model would be nice. But that‘s wishful thinking.

The price won't always be $1,450. The price is fairly close to what the first Blu-ray players cost when they came out. iDevices will never replace watching a movie on a TV. Media tanks are the next DVD/Blu-ray player and that's what this is. I've had a Popcorn Hour box for years and I've copied every DVD/Blu-ray I own to hard drives that are connected to the device. REDRAY will be the next media tank I get.

I agree that the codec is the key to making it work.

 

[Peter Proniewicz-Brooks]

This is the initial generation of the framework, it will be driven by very motivated customers (i.e "early adopters" and commercial venues)
So initially it looks like a B2B. Once the startup costs are paid off, as we saw the the price of the cameras, there is the possibility to reach a wider customer base via reduced price points.

The USB stick will be unneeded; the redray exists in its present form because no other physical interface between the content and the (soon to be available) displays currently exists. Once 4k computers are available you will use your exisiting Internet connection (wired/wifi/3G/4G) and a dowlnloadable codec to stream content, or the 4K capable displays will eventually have the technology built in ( á la Netflix app) No need for a redray 3G device.

PCs have been capable of 4k for years, yes mainly the high end gamers running multi screen displays.

A projector with a built in redray player is due next year from red both at consumer and cinema levels. It was many generations of HD TV before HD tuners were built in as standard.

integrated often trumps separates but usually takes a few generations, and not always.

one of the trends at the moment is for media servers to stream video and movies from a drive on your network to multiple locations.

REDs already got the separate player (legacy screen and early non inbuilt screen covered) and an upgradable projector (all in one covered), a local network streaming redray is not out of the question and may even be a firmware activable thing.

Outside of cities almost nowhere has the network infrastructure to stream even .red stuff, and there's no signs of it coming, so d/l is going to hold up for a long while yet over pure stream.

 

[Stuart English]

... I'm going to be researching wall matrix monitors now I didn't realize they had monitors where the edges line up and create a very small pixel gap. I BTW see this as a business/corporate deployment option, rather then theaters or home......

REDRAY is absolutely perfect for this business / corporate / medical use case (and it's also where many Ultra HD panels are being targeted)

We hinted at this type of use at last year's NAB when we drove several four panel LCD arrays from a combination of Clipster and REDRAY PRO

Note we also put RS170A genlock capability onto the box so you could sync multiple units together if you need a very large display wall....

 

[Will Keir]

That narrows it down to either Dwarf or Cave Troll.

The coal fields of northern England actually, which somewhat look like mines of Middle Earth

Graeme

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

Yes

No

- because real time 4K .RED file playback requires a REDRAY player.

I can find good use for the rr but I don't think I will talk the clients to get the rr just so I can deliver the best quality. Looking forward to get one of those.

 

[Stuart English]

Does the player have uPnP capabilities, or a way to play files from the local network (instead of pluging an extarnal hard drive) ?

REDRAY has an internal 1TB drive that represents approx 100 hours of 4K on-line media.

So we'd prefer to copy the .RED media file(s) to the internal drive, then playback from there....

... as network connections do exhibit this annoying habit of failing at inconvenient moments

 

[Stuart English]

I can find good use for the rr but I don't think I will talk the clients to get the rr just so I can deliver the best quality...

Understood, but you could take your REDRAY player to them, and show that what your 4K image quality capabilities are (even to a 1080p display)

Then maybe they would buy one or two REDRAY players too...

 

[L. Langer]

Regarding the eSATA port, is the player equipped with port-multiplier technology on the chipset and is it implemented in the player software?

 

[Elsie N]

Stuart, am I correct in assuming the .RED plugin will only encode to 4k? So if the content is in R3D 6k, it downscales to 4k?

 

[Scott Crawley]

The early rumbling around The Hobbit's frame rate and the prominent use of Gandalf in the marketing materials for RedRay seems to suggest that Red is about to drop a number of these things with Crimson into some key theaters. :ihih:

If so, this shit's going to explode in a hurry! Get out your thermonuclear protection guys!