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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDCINE-X BUILD 31 BETA ( With D.E.B )

Hmmm...Might that flag be auto set for any footage underexposed by X amount?


Thank you,


Jarred Land said:
This is why I love our customers so much... this is a fantastic idea David. Good job.
Click to expand...
 
See this thread. It should act as a sort of tranquilizer for anyone who is actually worried about having this excellent option in camera. FYI. RED does zero sharpening in camera, but that does not seem to be a problem either.

battistella

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?119144-Dragon-at-400-ISO

Alexandros Tsoupras said:
Thanks you so much RED TEAM. In my opinion the red noise artifact must be eliminated inside the camera in a future firmware release when the color science is perfected.
The REDCINE-X fix solution of the red noise must be only temporary for existing footage. No REDROCKET no CPU/GPU requirements. The images must be perfect out of the box from the sdi/hdmi ports for obvious reasons (monitoring, external recorders).
There is no reason to have a problem forever inside the camera and fix always in the post. I can't tell this to my clients. Less problems, happier clients. Keep thinks simple.
Can't wait to have my camera back with the DRAGON upgrade.
Click to expand...
 
Agreed (I think this might have been suggested before)

Also wondering if:

+) RedCiniX could use the Actual black shade data to further tweak noise supression (eg if there was a correlation between the random appearance of low level croma noise & low level sensor gain that was offset in the Black Shade Calibration)

+) If there is any advantage have an even illumination device that can bolt into the lens mount so that an option a WHITE Calibration could be recorded for a whole seies of Temperatures and shutter speeds and brightnesses -> and only used in RCX to remove the non-linear kinks in RGB response?

AJ


PC Greene said:
Yes...Brilliant...thank you!

Crazy idea...dynamically auto loading black shade setting based on temp & framerate? ;)

Blessings,
Click to expand...
 
Awesome improvement with DEB!

ScreenShot2014-08-07at72441AM_zpsd2080e46.png

ScreenShot2014-08-07at72432AM_zps32825e75.png
 
Jarred Land said:
This is why I love our customers so much... this is a fantastic idea David. Good job.
Click to expand...

Well to be fair, actually Isaac kicked off the idea, then I followed and with David then after as well...but who cares if you guys are taking it on board for future firmware...it's a great idea! Do we all get a free tshirt? ;)
 
PC Greene said:
Don't think you were listening Alexandro's ;). Reds front to back *ecosystem* is their strength & "baking in" not their philosophy.


Cheers,
Click to expand...

Hello Paul.
The think is that RED is listening. They have listen about the needs for a new gamma (redlogfilm, gamma3), about new color (color3), new fans, not to kill the HDRx with the DRAGON and many more. This is the reason i bought the EPIC, because RED is listening to redusers. Is there any reason why the red noise must be front to back?
Regards.
 
Alexandros Tsoupras said:
Hello David.
Sharpening is a matter of taste and you can do it in post. Red colored noise is a problem that no one wants.
Regards Alexandros.
Click to expand...

Agree, but I have yet to see it in the touchscreen and have not checked the HD-SDI. Can you tell me where you have seen the unwanted noise? Because it seems that, as in the example I posted above, there are not really any issues with that feed.

I even checked the R3D and it was clean. I cited that example because the user was using the EPIC and NOT delivering R3D's but Prores delivered via a HD-SDI recording through a PIX240. Contrary to popular belief on REDUSER, the red coloured noise does not show up on every shot.

I was just trying to show you that people have had great success (and in that case it was an interview lit on a limbo set) what better an example could you ask for when the complaint has been about shadow noise.

Anyhow, just trying to help. Take it any way you want. I believe and I have first hand experience, that you will not want DEB on every image, therefore putting it in camera and forcing it onto every image would be like forcing sharpening on everyone. That is just my take.

Battistella
 
Brigham Edgar said:
Well to be fair, actually Isaac kicked off the idea, then I followed and with David then after as well...but who cares if you guys are taking it on board for future firmware...it's a great idea! Do we all get a free tshirt? ;)
Click to expand...


Great job!

To be completely honest, I had not read through the whole thread, but what is important is that these things are presented here as a way of moving things forward.

Cheers,
Battistella
 
Nice! Time to enhance even more that beautiful and powerful RED RAW Dragon footage ;) Curious to see how my Mac Pro will deal with the DEB process :p

Good Job guys! Keep it up!
 
Juan D Salazar said:
Nice! Time to enhance even more that beautiful and powerful RED RAW Dragon footage ;) Curious to see how my Mac Pro will deal with the DEB process :p

Good Job guys! Keep it up!
Click to expand...


No performance hit on DEB processing. It's virtually the same ON or OFF
 
Brigham Edgar said:
Well to be fair, actually Isaac kicked off the idea, then I followed and with David then after as well...but who cares if you guys are taking it on board for future firmware...it's a great idea! Do we all get a free tshirt? ;)
Click to expand...

I'm sure others have discussed it before me. My thinking is that I'd rather have that option turned on in the meta data by default, than have to ASK an editor to manually enable it as they edit.

RCX is great and all, but to be totally honest the less I ever have to use it the more the RED workflow becomes seamless.

The metaphor I use is how all DSLRs that shot RAW used to come with a god awful RAW processing app. How many of us still use those manufacturer bundled RAW apps anymore? Anyone? *crickets* We don't, as Adobe Camera Raw (and to another extent Capture One) have made that a seamless system with Photoshop. So to me reverting back to RCX is introducing complexity.

If the DEB switch in the metadata can be enabled on record, that's badass. If the camera can apply the DEB effect to the SDI output...badass. 422HQ (I wish Epic output 4444) is important and this would be a huge win.

Either way I'm happy to see this fix come out.
 
Man... this is why I love RAW. So awesome.

Anyone run across a situation yet where you *wouldn't* want to use DEB?
 
David Battistella said:
Agree, but I have yet to see it in the touchscreen and have not checked the HD-SDI. Can you tell me where you have seen the unwanted noise? Because it seems that, as in the example I posted above, there are not really any issues with that feed.

I even checked the R3D and it was clean. I cited that example because the user was using the EPIC and NOT delivering R3D's but Prores delivered via a HD-SDI recording through a PIX240. Contrary to popular belief on REDUSER, the red coloured noise does not show up on every shot.

I was just trying to show you that people have had great success (and in that case it was an interview lit on a limbo set) what better an example could you ask for when the complaint has been about shadow noise.

Anyhow, just trying to help. Take it any way you want. I believe and I have first hand experience, that you will not want DEB on every image, therefore putting it in camera and forcing it onto every image would be like forcing sharpening on everyone. That is just my take.

Battistella
Click to expand...

David just to be clear i am not talking about the amount of noise of the DRAGON, but the red colored noise. I like noise, some of my clients they don't. I can apply denoise in post to remove it. I don't like red colored noise. When i am raising the signal (high iso) the red colored noise is there in every frame. It will be great the noise from the DRAGON to be white and to be in camera. A colleague 1AC was bought the Blackmagic pocket because he likes the noise that it has. Like film he said. If the noise from the DRAGON is white and organic like film i can sell it to my clients.

PS: Thank you for the great post and images that you share.
 
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Cool.

I think that if we are able to turn it on in camera that would be good. The way to do this would be via a setting that tells the r3d to display the r3d with deb on in Redcine or any app that opens up an r3d file.

This way. You flip a menu button in the camera and that turns deb on. Or you can leave it off. Any client who opens your r3d file will (in the background) have DEB on as a default. Your clients will never see the noise and you won't have to tell them to flip a switch or to fix it later.

It's seamless.

If if someone chooses to leave it off then they can apply it on a per shot basis in RCX or whatever software. There are some shots (maybe with a fair amount of red channel information) where you don't want it off or you want to choose a different NR method. Having the choice is good. And if you left it on and want to revert to leaving it off them you might also want that choice.

Battistella
 
DEB looks like softening the red, the noise structure is a bit different, the low light noise core seem also softer.

Wonder what's going on with DEB.

It's good to have another tool to fight back noise. I'll personnaly go after the V1 OLPF module.

Pat
 
I think thats what we wanted from the start. My personal opinion is that if the camera can do DEB real-time via the 1080p 422 output via the SDI, that makes DIT/on-set capture to things like DNX/ProRes extremely valuable since while the red can vary from subtle to 'ugh' (dark shadows especially) if that can be meta-data for RAW, but baked into SDI output, you've just made the Dragon's DEB feature VERY valuable.

That solution doesn't violate RED's intention with the power of RAW, nor does it create a situation where you HAVE to tell an editor to go in and enable DEB on every shot/take. The DP should just enable that feature on a project by project basis, or even shot by shot if need be, so that it tells RCX/Premiere/Resolve/Whatever that DEB should be set to ON.
 
So, if DEB is so great, why make it optional ? Why not make it standard in RCX ? People who don't know about it will not check this feature and will render their footage without it, that seems counter-productive... Or are there any downsides to DEB ? I haven't tried it yet...

And regarding the in-camera DEB requests, I think some people are already recording footage to Prores through external recorders, even without DEB, so if it is possible to activate DEB in camera, it would probably be great for them to be able to record better footage.

Anyway, downloading the beta now, looking forward to trying it on some footage I shot recently :)
 
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