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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED Weapon 8K - Lens Coverage Information

Thank you for putting all this together! I'm quite happy to see the CP.2 seem to have no issues with the 8K Weapon.
 
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Okay, back home now. Typo fixed.

A couple of other personal notes as I'm a bit familiar with the glass many might end up using for 8K.

First, if you are considering 65mm or Medium Format lenses, of course those are expected to cover. The focus here was lenses converted to hard PL mounts as the light out of the exit pupil and how it played with the diameter of the PL mount is a consideration. So far, so good however. I will say on some larger format glass that flare and glare is a bigger concern. So flag, stop down, or matte box appropriately. Again, depends on the design.

As for FF35 glass. There's a lot of lenses. And I mean a lot. And worse there's odd variations and levels of quality control. So there will be a good deal to test. There's about 250 lenses I can think of that will be worth investigating. Much like 6K with Super 35mm designed glass, it's a fair to say longer lenses are expected to do well. Essentially 35mm and up. But so far it looks like modern glass has been over designed to play well enough for 8K, which is great news! Do remember, on 8K FF a what is wide for you on Super 35mm is more likely close to or actually an ultra wide. When I tested the Zeiss 15mm T2.9 I was freaked out because it's insanely wide angle, essentially the HFOV of a 9mm rectilinear lens on Super 35mm if you think about it. And perhaps that will be one of the allures of this particular format as there's so much range and glass that works with it. Ultra wide through telephoto. And not just that, but a heap of specialty lenses like macros, tilt shift, etc. And there's newer glass on the horizon in the next two year to boot.

As for vignetting concerns, well yes, those are real. Especially on some wides and ultra wides. Some of those suckers dip 4 stops in the corners and edges on FF35. It will depend greatly on the design. The Sigma Art 20mm f/1.4 wide open comes to mind.

Remember, RED Weapon 8K is a multi-format system. Meaning 8K, 7.5K, 7K, 6.5K, 6K, 5.5K, 5K, 4.5K, 4K, etc... are available to you as well as the various aspect ratios. If you are working in a world of 8K HD (16x9) for instance, that require less coverage that 8K FF, which is 1.9:1. And if you are finishing for 4K, the world is your oyster when it comes to capture formats and resolutions. Similar to how 5K FF and 5.5K HD have been my jam for 6K RED Epic Dragon and RED Weapon 6K on many productions I think you'll see a lot of people hitting up 7K FF and 7.5K HD for certain things. If you are finishing 8K however, 8K FF, 2:1, WS, and/or HD are your targets.

As for anamorphic testing, yep, that will be done too. Personally I'd expect the news to be generally good for 8K 6:5 2X Anamorphic projects, though the format size in height exceeds the Super 35mm standard. But damn, I can't wait to see some images from that high resolution and slightly larger format 2X anamorphic format. It's gonna be juicy.
 
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Not sure if this has been discussed anywhere but does anyone know if the weapon OLPF’s will need to be replaced after the 8k upgrade? I need to decide whether to just get the standard with my weapon upgrade or the package of all three which gives some discount. Any advice appreciated.
 
Thanks for another great resource!

BTW, pretty disappointed to see the Zeiss CZ.2's not cover 8k FF cleanly throughout the range. I thought that was one of the major selling points of the set?
 
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Tom Hanmer said:
Not sure if this has been discussed anywhere but does anyone know if the weapon OLPF’s will need to be replaced after the 8k upgrade? I need to decide whether to just get the standard with my weapon upgrade or the package of all three which gives some discount. Any advice appreciated.
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The 8K OLPFs will be larger "windows", so they are different. As for the upgrade and what's included, I have no idea as of yet. It's been a bit vague since NAB 2015, but I'm sure things will get hammered down soon.

At the moment outside of the 8K Weapon brain upgrade things to consider are:
- The new 8K PL Mount
- Larger 8K OLPFs

It's said that the current Canon EF Mount works, but Jarred hinted that a new 8K-in-mind EF Mount might be on the horizon at some point. Don't know what that means.
 
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Marcus Friedlander said:
Thanks for another great resource!

BTW, pretty disappointed to see the Zeiss CZ.2's not cover 8k FF cleanly throughout the range. I thought that was one of the major selling points of the set?
Click to expand...

It's the alarmingly early days of all this. If it's the PL Mount on the lens that's causing the issue I'm sure it will be looked at. I'll be testing these with EF Mount to make sure at some point. Both the 15-30 and 70-200 cover 8K HD. On the wide side of things I can live with using the 15-30mm at 17mm, but we'll be investigating further.

I need to emphasis, early days. If a mount can be modified if that is the issue, it will get done. If not, then it is what it is.

The 28-80mm is extremely nice however, and that's good news as it represents a mid-range zoom. It's equivalent to a 25-70mm HFOV zoom on FF35 and covers nicely.
 
I'll definitely be following these developments closely. Thanks for all the work you do for the community (and for the industry as a whole!)
 
Phil
Thanks for your time answering my question re OLPFs. Guess I will just get the standard one for now and then reassess when my 8k upgrade is due. Would be interested to hear how much of the sensor sumicron-c cover. Must be great getting to play with the 8k, hope it is everything you wished for.
 
Why wouldn't weapon just come standard with OLPFs that have larger glass suitable for 8k?

Is the MG PL mount that comes with weapon upgradable to the 8k PL mount?

or we have to buy new OLPFs and new PL mount just after upgrading?

Its a standard PL, not XPL mount? Does it have LDS?

Its said 8k weapons have shipped out to at lest one feature, so what did they get?

Did you test the medium format lenses adapted to PL or EF? Seems like the question is not if they cover, but how much you have to stop them down to have the sharpness be reasonable since they are designed for a film plane that is much much larger. Probably hit diffraction limit at f11 or higher because of the olpf?



Phil Holland said:
The 8K OLPFs will be larger "windows", so they are different. As for the upgrade and what's included, I have no idea as of yet. It's been a bit vague since NAB 2015, but I'm sure things will get hammered down soon.

At the moment outside of the 8K Weapon brain upgrade things to consider are:
- The new 8K PL Mount
- Larger 8K OLPFs

It's said that the current Canon EF Mount works, but Jarred hinted that a new 8K-in-mind EF Mount might be on the horizon at some point. Don't know what that means.
Click to expand...
 
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Christopher*Seguine said:
Why wouldn't weapon just come standard with OLPFs that have larger glass suitable for 8k?

Is the MG PL mount that comes with weapon upgradable to the 8k PL mount?

or we have to buy new OLPFs and new PL mount just after upgrading?

Its a standard PL, not XPL mount? Does it have LDS?

Its said 8k weapons have shipped out to at lest one feature, so what did they get?

Did you test the medium format lenses adapted to PL or EF? Seems like the question is not if they cover, but how much you have to stop them down to have the sharpness be reasonable since they are designed for a film plane that is much much larger. Probably hit diffraction limit at f11 or higher because of the olpf?
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Answers and perhaps more questions.

- Not all Weapon 6K bodies are destined to be upgraded to 8K. No reason to do that.
- RED hasn't announced a plan yet to upgrade the 6K MG PL to 8K MG PL yet. Don't even know if that's realistically possible. Don't know if it's included in the upgrade package. Don't know if there's a discount if you're an early adopter to 8K. I imagine we'll know very soon though.
- Same answer for the PL mount regarding the OLPFs. Don't know if there's an upgrade path, included in price, discount, or have to purchase new. It has been a mystery. I will say the 8K OLPFs will likely cost a bit more than 6K OLPFs due to volume of sales and larger base materials. Not insanely more, but probably more.
- The 8K PL Mount is a standard PL in it's dimensions. There's been no mention of an XPL Mount yet. However, Panavision has indeed created a larger mount for use with their Primo 70 Lenses.
- Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2 has been gobbling up the first batch of cameras. This is a big feature and more or less what inspired the initial lens tests. Sounds like a few things will be used, but likely PV Primo 70s for the production based on what I've seen online.
- In the first post I mentioned we tested MF lenses adapted to PL, EF "technically" should allow more coverage anyways. I have a couple MF lenses that out resolve Master Primes, though they are not T1.3. Diffraction is mostly influenced by the speed and design of the lens and the general pixel size/resolution. Since Weapon 8K is the same as 6K, diffraction values/performance is the same on both sensors. Diffraction on say Summilux-C T1.4 primes generally creeps in around T8-T11, on some T2-ish primes diffraction shows up around T13-T16. So on and so forth. Again though, depends on a lot of factors, but typically it's about 5-6 stops from maximum aperture. That's a good rule of thumb. Sweet spot is still 1-3 stops stopped down. Again, just a rule of thumb, that's handy.
 
Leica Summicron C.

Leica Summicron C.

Really curious if these cover or don't. Their literature says they cover a 36 x 24mm image circle. But then I heard (from Leica), that they only cover from 50mm and up.


Which doesn't make sense (unless they're talking full frame Weapon 8k).
 
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Dale Launer said:
Really curious if these cover or don't. Their literature says they cover a 36 x 24mm image circle. But then I heard (from Leica), that they only cover from 50mm and up.


Which doesn't make sense (unless they're talking full frame Weapon 8k).
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Link me to that literature?

Also, just a heads up. I will be doing more robust coverage notes than this shortly.
 
Phil, you are welcome to use my Leica Summicron C's any time.

I'll have them with me tomorrow, and I'm shooting on the West Side if you wanted to visit.

I have a feeling they will cover pretty damn well, but maybe not all formats. I connected them to a 36x24 sony sensor via an E mount to PL mount, and I had good coverage on the 18mm in full frame mode. I know the Horizontal axis is larger on the Weapon 8k, so , of course Time and Tests will Tell.
 
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