Red Scarlet X #316 "Skully"

[Jeffrey T. Morgan]

Phil, do you use any other Shoot35 gear? thoughts?

 

[Kyle Gentz]

Phil What did u use to attach the 15mm rails (that hold your FF) to the camera its self.

 

[Phil Holland]

Incoming 3k stress test material and a few images. First to answer a few questions.

....hmm, now what was all that stink people were making about Canon lenses about a week ago!

Canon lenses are certainly a lot of bang for the buck. I'll tell you though they just don't compare to cinema lenses in a variety of ways. For instance: zoom image quality, breathing, barrel distortion, aberrations, and sharpness wide open. On the flip side though you get very fast lenses in a really compact package. Not to mention a huge selection of focal lengths from many manufacturers. And, of course, much cheaper in cost. Always pros and cons.

Phil, do you use any other Shoot35 gear? thoughts?

I like Shoot35 gear. I've used their matte box and follow focus. Real nice for the price. Pretty much everything I've used from Shoot35, Zacuto, and Redrock Micro make is pretty damn nice and usable. I haven't used the new Redrock Micro Follow Focus Blue yet, but I hear good things. Obviously the build quality is radically different compared to Arri and OConnner equipment.

Phil What did u use to attach the 15mm rails (that hold your FF) to the camera its self.

I drilled a hole in a Manfrotto base plate and bolted on a clamp from my Easom Cage. This is my temporary solution until my rig is done being built, just spoke to my machinist and I'm hoping for next week. Red, Wooden Camera, and several others make solutions that are very good on this front.


Be back in a few minutes. Got to wait on the upload.

 

[Phil Holland]

A friend of mine who's doing testing with a certain other camera asked for a 1080p (he asked for 1920px wide) output of "A Refining Experience". He's focused on broadcast use primarily.
I've uploaded that file to Vimeo and it's available to download from there, (321Mb): http://vimeo.com/34300324


On to 3k material.

If you click "Original" you'll see the 3k output. Everything shot in 3k at 48fps using 1/96th. Mostly on the Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L at f/2.8-f/5.6 utilizing deep ND filtration. More of stress test to see how that combination would hold up. Other lenses used in the video are the Canon 35mm f/1.4L, 85mm f/1.2L, and Sigma 300mm f/2.8 with a 2X Teleconverter for the sunset shot. No stabilization or anything. That's the wind blowing the camera at 600mm. The images off the primes are pretty much better in every way at 3k.

3k and Overcranking: It's extremely nice to be able to shoot 48fps at 3k. You lose a bit of width on your lenses, but gain the overcranking ability. I would recommend shooting with primes if you are exploring 3k and 2k modes at any speed. My 3k test video was primarily shot with the Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L and I was attempting to shoot with deep filtration at f/2.8-f/5.6. It's a good lens, but it's hard to compete with a prime lens under these circumstances. This was a stress test and in the future I'll be shooting anything below f/8 on primes at 3k and under.

Dynamic Range: Just making a note here that the dynamic range is pretty damn stellar even without HDRx. I've known this since working with the Epic, but I've taken Scarlet X out into much more extreme contrast situations and have been extremely impressed at what's retained in each shot. I really hope Red figures out a way to make HDRx in 4k at 24fps happen. That would be awesome.

Color: I have experience with the Red One and Red Epic, so Scarlet X providing wonderful color isn't really a shocker. But, for those new to RedCode Raw and working with R3Ds I thought I'd mention that you can indeed do a lot to these files in post and they hold up really well. Keying is also a fairly trivial process when lit correctly.


Black Shading: Just filling you guys in on how I've handled Black Shading. Basically it's wake up, turn on Scarlet, and wait for the camera to get up to operating temperature. Kick off a Black Shading Calibration, shower, get dressed, eat breakfast. It's done after that. I live in Los Angeles and have nice weather here. I haven't found the need to Black Shade after my morning "routine".


Support: I've switched over from my lightweight Varizoom HDV tripod with mid level spreader to my other slightly heavier, yet still fairly light, Manfrotto tripod with a floor spreader. It's much more stable and secure to operate on. Also to note that in my 3k test video below I punched in at 600mm at the end. I didn't stabilize the video at all and the wobble you see if from the wind. If this was more than just an impromptu test shoot I would have bagged the camera and put up a windwall to achieve a shot like this.

Canon Al EF Mount: Working very well. Only lens I've really had issue with is my Sigma 300mm f/2.8 prime. It clearly doesn't communicate with the camera. The addition twist lock really secures the lens so it's not budging one bit. I would say anything bigger than Canon's 300mm f/2.8L IS needs rod support. The newer 400mm f/2.8L IS might be okay, but I'd say that's at the edge of reasonable expectations.

Low Light Night Tests: I'm still doing my low light tests and I might edit together a piece on that soonish. As I mentioned before you can do a lot with Redcode Raw. If you're pushing the material to ISO 2500 and beyond noise reduction techniques are what you're going to need to get the best results. This is part of the Red workflow though. Other cameras "do things" to make their low light happen. Red cameras you get to control "those things" to get the results you want.


I've also been doing some other tests involving some "alternative" glass. Here's just a couple of stills.

Leica Summicron-R 90mm f/2 - @ f/2

Voigtlander Ultron 40mm f/2 SL II - @ f/2

Canon 55mm f/1.2 (I modded it to EF) - @ f/1.2


That's what I have for today. I'll be doing more night/low light tests and that will be the last of the "stress tests". Scarlet's doing really well here. In all honesty in usage it's just like shooting with an Epic except you're confined to 4k to shoot at speed (24fps) and you have slightly less RedCode compression options. I do pine for more frames per second at higher resolution and I'd love to see if Red can actually pull off that 4k HDRx 24fps solution. That's all down the line though. We know phantom power is already on it's way and I've had no issue piping audio into the camera. For the time being, Scarlet X is a fully functional motion picture camera.

 

[Josh Negrin]

Phil, you're inspiring me, man! My Scarlet-X just shipped and I too live in L.A. I'd love to collaborate with you, or be a second cam, or something!

 

[Dane Henry]

Incoming 3k stress test material and a few images. First to answer a few questions.




Canon lenses are certainly a lot of bang for the buck. I'll tell you though they just don't compare to cinema lenses in a variety of ways. For instance: zoom image quality, breathing, barrel distortion, aberrations, and sharpness wide open. On the flip side though you get very fast lenses in a really compact package. Not to mention a huge selection of focal lengths from many manufacturers. And, of course, much cheaper in cost. Always pros and cons.

.

Yep, totally agree, I am well aware of all the issues you run into using still glass for motion! I pick cine glass over it any time I can...But I have used Canon L glass on many projects, Films, promos and docs (for ESPN, Fox Sports, Fox Soccer) and when used to the strengths of the lens you come away with beautifully stellar images!

I just got a kick out of how when Jannard mentioned that Canon glass doesn't perform as well for super duper high detail panoramic shots, a bunch of people freaked out and thought you couldn't produce a great image with Canon glass...people even started to sell there lens kit off!!!

Thanks for proving to people that when using the lens to its strengths you can get some perrrty stuff shot! Really appreciate all the info you've been sharing...makes waiting for my cam a little bit easier...only a little bit though

 

[Peter.G]

Phil,

Great work...THANKS

-P

 

[Brian Pascale]

Thanks for all the footage

Thanks for all the footage

Thanks for posting all the footage. The night footage looks really good, can't wait to be able to starting shooting on the Scarlet... Actually I have to wait until mine comes in, hopefully in February. If you could only have one prime what would it be?

 

[Sergio Perez]

Phil, thank you for showing us in such detail what the camera is capable of. I'm really looking forward to your low light video!

 

[Ryan De Franco]

Phil, the Santa Monica footage is fantastic, even with YouTube compression you can see how much detail retained in the waves. Your music is a perfect fit--for once 48fps of strangers felt ethereal and human at the same time.

What compression ratio was this material filmed at?

 

[Ben Pluimer]

...a bunch of people freaked out and thought you couldn't produce a great image with Canon glass...people even started to sell there lens kit off!!!

Looks like so many people freaking out got to them since someone deleted the whole thread. It's not great PR for people to hear the equivalent of "the cameras you all are spending tens of thousands of dollars on won't look good" in any context. Of course a $1k lens won't perform as well as a $10k lens.

 

[Phil Holland]

Thanks for all the kind words guys. Just finished up about 75% of my lens tests and thought I'd answer a few questions before I dart off into the abyss again.

Phil, you're inspiring me, man! My Scarlet-X just shipped and I too live in L.A. I'd love to collaborate with you, or be a second cam, or something!

Cheers Josh. I'm a native from here in Los Angeles. It's actually be great fun making little shorts to test out gear for the last few years. Gives you a lot of time too look at the landmarks and not so famous areas. I'm shooting a feature next year and we're doing some wonderful aerial coverage of the city for the movie. I can't wait for that.

Thanks for proving to people that when using the lens to its strengths you can get some perrrty stuff shot! Really appreciate all the info you've been sharing...makes waiting for my cam a little bit easier...only a little bit though

In reality you can produce compelling images with "any lens". But if you're interested in the highest quality output; cinema glass is the way to go. Then after that high end cinema glass is even better. It's very noticeable on a 40-60 foot screen. That said I just slammed a Lomo "Lens-In-A-Cap" (about $20) on the Scarlet X and I can actually see a reason to use it for a certain look and feel. Good PV and PL glass is pretty much untouchable. The newest Leica Summilux-C series lenses are the best thing I've ever seen on a camera.

Thanks for posting all the footage. The night footage looks really good, can't wait to be able to starting shooting on the Scarlet... Actually I have to wait until mine comes in, hopefully in February. If you could only have one prime what would it be?

That's about the hardest question you could ask a fellow like me However, from a cinematography standpoint I'd say a prime lens in the 18mm-24mm range is the way to go. Some features have shot entirely on 18mm and 21mm primes. Children of Men comes to mind. Now if we're talking still lenses, I'd say the Canon 24mm f/1.4L fits that bill nicely. If you don't need that fast f/1.4 aperture the Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 is a killer lens.

I'll tell you this though. The first person to come up with a 18mm f/1.8 in EF mount has my money. The same goes for a 10-12mm f/2.8 prime for that matter.

For my personal use at a minimum I usually have a wide, normal, and telephoto prime on me. I usually carry around 3-9 primes on me. With the Red Scarlet X I'm carrying the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 on me at all times.

Phil, the Santa Monica footage is fantastic, even with YouTube compression you can see how much detail retained in the waves. Your music is a perfect fit--for once 48fps of strangers felt ethereal and human at the same time.

What compression ratio was this material filmed at?

Thanks Ryan. You can actually see the sand get picked up under the water on that second shot. That's very cool. Everything I've shot and have shown up until this point in this thread is 8:1 compression. While working on feature films we shoot at 5:1 through 8:1. No real reason for me to go lower than 8:1.

 

[Carlos Reyes]

those panoramas are jaw dropping man

thanks for taking the time to provide so much detail on your experience with Scarlet a lot of useful info on here

 

[Phil Holland]

Cheers Carlos. Here's a little more hopefully useful information.

I just replied to a discussion in this thread.

But if you're curious about what you can do with ISO 6400 at 4k:

Lit by cell phone screen captured at f/1.2, focus on the thumb.

 

[SeanBrown]

Amazing!

 

[Michael Dalton]

very nice to see some pro-tests! Great Stuff... if our paths cross one day Phil, I owe you a pint... maybe two!

 

[Mike Garrick]

Great work Phil others have said it better than me. Interested to know how you mounted that 15mm handle to the camera as the base of it isn't flat, made up a part or purchased a big washer from your local hardware.?

P.S..I was unaware you are also a musician. Congrats. some great sounding tracks, VST, digital or Analog ? Interesting I use to also play similar vein a long time ago but it was all analog then with names like Prophet, Jupiter, OB Xa, Arp, Moog, Fairlight. I still have a tiered stack sitting beside my work desk, which I play every now & then drowning the neighbourhood in sub bass!

 

[Michael Dalton]

Hi Phil,

I noticed you said you had an Easom cage, I've got a halo one and was hoping it would fit with scarlet. I found the cage very good for adding lights and shotgun mic and extras. Not to mention it help my camera from getting banged around a lot. I like the tactical design, but for a bush environment, a cage is nice. Did you find anything usable? Would a 9in version work. Proaim has a rip of (or could be the other way) of Easom cages with a 9 inch that may work. Cory said a while back he may design a conversion kit to work with scarlet.

 

[Jack Shanahan]

Cheers Carlos. Here's a little more hopefully useful information.

I just replied to a discussion in this thread.

But if you're curious about what you can do with ISO 6400 at 4k:



Lit by cell phone screen captured at f/1.2, focus on the thumb.

Lens?

Thanks!

 

[Sergio Perez]

Hi Phil, what noise reduction did you use on the 6400 picture? Neat video? I love the gradient and how information survived the noise reduction pass. In a 5D that would look like a big mess!