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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Scarlet vs. BMC fightclub!

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Jared Knecht

Jared Knecht

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Hey I got invited to be a guest at AVALive and their web series. We are doing a fight club between my Scarlet and their BMC. It is made for the consumer and is very laid back and fun. Maybe it will help answer some questions or spark up some discussion! Just wanted to share it with you!

 
Thanks Jared! great to see information starting to come up between what is out there.

I look forward to sessions when you actually compare camera performance and not just if you can shot straight out of the box. Otherwise, any serious cinema camera will loose against BMCC price point :) and for that matter against the 5D mark II :tongue_smilie:
 
I was going to post something Sarcastic but the BMCC policia will likely pop in soon...

Thanks for doing that Jared. In all honestly I wouldn't replace anything with it, but i'm intrigued to see what it can do at least. If they can release a 4K version at any point i'd love it as a B-cam to pull out for quick shots since it does have a built in battery and screen.

This is the real thread we should've had and we should let the other one die. I can't wait to see some real in use, scientific tests. BMC is doing all the right things and their failure to ship just shows that RED isn't the only company that will struggle with new camera releases. I do like the price point, and hope they can keep it in this range.
 
I had a BMCC preorderd and waited and waited, and then i downloaded all of the BMCC footage i could get, and all the Scarlet footage i could get, and played with both types in resolve, speedgrade etc, and decided that the Scarlet for me was the winner. Granted the cost was substantially higher, full kitted out came in at 14,400 UK, compared to probably about 4,000 for the BMCC. But for me it was worth the investment, and i am not even sure i would bother to pick up a BMCC now, especially given how poor the BM communication has been to both its resellers and customers, and for me that is a huge part of investing money in a product, i want to make sure the support is there.

Andrew.
 
Someone forgot rule #1..... :)
 
Thoughts:

Keeps talking about weight... 5lbs is nothing. Red1 was 10 naked, Alexa is 15... The Panasonic HVX-200 was 5.2 lbs... and we've all handheld that thing back in (edit) 2006 like all day long. The Scarlet X Body + Side SSD Module + Al Canon Mount = 4.84 lbs. That is light weight, from my perspective. I have handheld 40lb Red1's all day long. I'm just surprised because my unboxing of Epic and the first time I played with a BMC, my first thoughts was 'wow' how small and light. Not how heavy.

I guess it's perspective. If you're coming down off of Red1's, 2/3" cams, film cams, Alexa's, basically any camera ever in the history of filmmaking... these new cams are light. If you are coming up off of photography cameras, T2i's, 5d's, etc... they could seem a little heavy.
 
Ryan...

If you handheld the HVX 200 back in 2002, I feel cheated for being one of the 1st in Norway with that cam... In 2006....

And fun part was that until running some keying tests that didn't really correspond with the specs, I really thought it was THAT good.

960x540 pixel shifted anyone... ?

Was really a lot worse than DIGI in practical terms. and what a disappointment it was to take that fact in...
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Ryan...

If you handheld the HVX 200 back in 2002, I feel cheated for being one of the 1st in Norway with that cam... In 2006....

And fun part was that until running some keying tests that didn't really correspond with the specs, I really thought it was THAT good.

960x540 pixel shifted anyone... ?

Was really a lot worse than DIGI in practical terms. and what a disappointment it was to take that fact in...
Click to expand...

Hahaha typo! Yeah, it was 2006 era. hahaha.

It's not the best camera, especially now, but I was just using it as an example because it was a workhorse for many people in the prosumer and professional industry for a bit. It was handheld by thousands of people for a long time. Still see them in the wild, albeit Hvx200a's or HPX170's.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Ryan...

If you handheld the HVX 200 back in 2002, I feel cheated for being one of the 1st in Norway with that cam... In 2006....

And fun part was that until running some keying tests that didn't really correspond with the specs, I really thought it was THAT good.

960x540 pixel shifted anyone... ?

Was really a lot worse than DIGI in practical terms. and what a disappointment it was to take that fact in...
Click to expand...


I was one of the early adopter as well. And I happened to be a PC guy. Remember that whole Raylight codec thing? We even used it for some element shoots on a few features. Beyond the weird resolution stuff the color was just not so good out of that camera. It didn't hurt at all when I sold it.

I'm with others on this. 1000' feet of 35mm is around 5lbs alone without the camera. 12-15lbs was sort of a starting point for film rigs and it went up wildly from there.

And I'll add, you really don't want a camera that's too lightweight.
 
Phil Holland said:
I was one of the early adopter as well. And I happened to be a PC guy. Remember that whole Raylight codec thing? We even used it for some element shoots on a few features. Beyond the weird resolution stuff the color was just not so good out of that camera. It didn't hurt at all when I sold it.

I'm with others on this. 1000' feet of 35mm is around 5lbs alone without the camera. 12-15lbs was sort of a starting point for film rigs and it went up wildly from there.

And I'll add, you really don't want a camera that's too lightweight.
Click to expand...


Ha ha. I felt bad for you PC guys back then. I was one of the first guys in Canada to get a HVX200. I was sporting it with the whole Brevis 35mm adapter with the flip module. Damn that was heavy!
 
Bob Gundu said:
Ha ha. I felt bad for you PC guys back then. I was one of the first guys in Canada to get a HVX200. I was sporting it with the whole Brevis 35mm adapter with the flip module. Damn that was heavy!
Click to expand...

Oh man I hated the 35mm adapters on the HVX, so soft. EX1 was ok. Happy that craze is over!
 
The Scarlet and Epic is almost too light for serious cinema work. Thankfully You can kit it with as much accessories as Your heart desires to "fit in your comfort zone". For me the Scarlet / Epic size and weight is just perfect. It really shows when I need to do the odd handheld shot or a shoulder mount - you get far more stable tracking...

RED ONE was a monster - especially when working in 3D. Full 3D rig on a steadicam was easily 70+ lbs. But even so - I remember the first time I saw RED ONE I was like "how tiny and light this thing is", having arrived from 35mm world handling anything from 235 to 635 and all in-between. I don't get me started on 2/3"...

I would not want camera any smaller or lighter then the Scarlet / Epic. But I guess this is clearly a personal preference...

Just my two yen...

Peter
 
no overcranks, undercranks, no way to change mount, terrible monitor that doesn't tilt, terrible form factor, not upgradable sensor= doorstop future, not S35, most BS criteria ever for judging...


basically can a soccer mom use it and afford it is their motto there...

what about this as a concept: did the hobbit shoot on your sensor? how about gatsby, spiderman, prometheus? who exactly is coming up with this criteria cuz as far as i can tell that plastic POS can't match a single tech spec of the Scarlet and lacks real world testing... how come none of this is coming up? the price is the more irrelevant factor ever, does he know how much an alexa, phantom, epic, Penelope is?
 
Brian Merlen said:
no overcranks, undercranks
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Scarlet does overcranks only in lower resolutions. There are many cheaper cameras that do high(er) frame rates in same resolutions. And why would you even shoot with those lower resolutions? According to RED and most people here, your footage isn't future proof if it's shot in 1080p (not to even mention the ridiculous 1K [lower than 720p]).

BMD could have added overcranks in lower resolutions just like all other manufacturers do, but this is digital cinema camera and 720p is not cinema.

Undercranks are easily added later via firmware update.
no way to change mount
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With MFT mount you can basicly use any lens you want.

terrible monitor that doesn't tilt
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What kind of monitor Scarlet comes with?

terrible form factor
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Hey, you got one thing right.

not upgradable sensor= doorstop future
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I much rather buy MBC for 3K$, sell it for 2K$ year later and buy a whole new camera with new sensor for 3K$ than just buy a new sensor for around 10K$ (Scarlet).

Talking about doorstops, it seems that you missed Jarred's post where he said that Scarlet might not be upgradable.
not S35
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Many Oscar winning (best pictures etc) movies have been shot with S16 size sensor in past few years. S16 vs S35 has been done already in the other BMC thread. You might want to look at that since I don't feel like repeating everything.

basically can a soccer mom use it and afford it is their motto there...
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How about "3K for 3K$"? You remember, that motto RED had for 2/3 sensor Scarlet (btw 2/3 is smaller than the sensor BMC's uses and smaller than S16)? Are you saying RED used years developing camera for soccer moms too?

what about this as a concept: did the hobbit shoot on your sensor? how about gatsby, spiderman, prometheus?
Click to expand...

Are you asking why camera released in late 2012 was not used in films that were shot in 2010 and 2011?

who exactly is coming up with this criteria cuz as far as i can tell that plastic POS can't match a single tech spec of the Scarlet and lacks real world testing... how come none of this is coming up? the price is the more irrelevant factor ever, does he know how much an alexa, phantom, epic, Penelope is?
Click to expand...
It matches the image quality and that's what matters for most.
 
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