RED party reel powered by RED RAY

[Erik Ponti]

Visual proof was provided for those attending. First time round they didn't know they were watching REDRAY. 2nd and 3rd time round, people knew what Ted was up to with his demo and must have been looking at it critically knowing what it was.

Graeme

Yes, but just watching it like that doesn't allow you to carefully examine it. That is, seeing if it really is fit for distribution.

"Looking at it critically" is not good enough. It needs to be compared to the source, on a computer. They were probably looking for standard DCT compression artifacts -- which you would not see, since wavelet compression artifacts are different. Especially since (presumably) at the time they didn't know it was wavelet compression, just that it was compressed. If I'm wrong, then feel free to enlighten me, but AFAIK they didn't know how it was compressed.

I think since you [seem to be] are planning to pitch it as a product, it's imperative that you provide screencaps that can be used to really see how good it is. Preferably with a lossless version of the source (short) video, so it can be compared to other solutions.

If you don't provide screencaps that people can study for any reason other than "we don't consider it completely ready yet", then for me that means it doesn't compare.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

What compression artifacts?

No, they don't know how it was compressed. Actually, "how" is utterly irrelevant. Only things that matter is that the content was our demo reel, which is not "unchallenging" material, resolution was 4k, bit rate was 10mbit/s, and to everyone who saw it, thought it looked great. We were in no way embarrassed to show it as a demonstration of the camera, never mind as a demonstration of REDRAY.

Graeme

 

[Alan Skinner]

so the redray was a hard drive playback? or DVD/CF?

Whats the difference? If it is 10 mbits/sec, we can just move theatrical 4K around with an F'ing USB Thumb Drive!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

 

[Erik Ponti]

What compression artifacts?

A very bold claim - once more... so post some uncompressed & compressed screencaps.

No, they don't know how it was compressed. Actually, "how" is utterly irrelevant. Only things that matter is that the content was our demo reel, which is not "unchallenging" material, resolution was 4k, bit rate was 10mbit/s, and to everyone who saw it, thought it looked great. We were in no way embarrassed to show it as a demonstration of the camera, never mind as a demonstration of REDRAY.

I remain unimpressed, just because I can't judge for myself...

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

but Ray Charles is blind ?!

Yes, but he is not stupid.

Worse -- he's dead.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Erik, it's a technology preview for a forthcoming product. Last NAB we announced it was coming. This year we showed progress, and a demonstration to show that the codec behind the product works.

I fully understand you need to see it for yourself.

Graeme

 

[Erik Ponti]

Maybe I was a bit confusing - but what I meant is that even if I was present at the event, I still would want to see screencaps, because.. well, I already explained that part

I maintain my position that if you were confident enough for a demonstration, you should have no qualms with posting screencaps, especially considering your previous post.

 

[Jannard]

A very bold claim - once more... so post some uncompressed & compressed screencaps.


I remain unimpressed, just because I can't judge for myself...

All in due time... in the meantime, many were impressed. Good enough for us (for now).

Jim

 

[Erik Ponti]

Right. Well, I guess it's up to you, but many people like me are now thinking "Eh. Pics or it didn't happen."
Not RED users, but people who have, or are going to, hear about it and be full of skepticism.

 

[Jannard]

Right. Well, I guess it's up to you, but many people like me are now thinking "Eh. Pics or it didn't happen."
Not RED users, but people who have, or are going to, hear about it and be full of skepticism.

Sounds just like what we heard about recording 4K to a compact flash card when we showed the 1st samples. And we did show pics... and it did happen. You just weren't there. Of course there will be a time when we post side by side images... but we'll do that according to our plan, not yours. Actually, skeptics are absolutely necessary to help us get the word out. Thanks.

Jim

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Right. Well, I guess it's up to you, but many people like me are now thinking "Eh. Pics or it didn't happen."
Not RED users, but people who have, or are going to, hear about it and be full of skepticism.

Hey Erik- I was/ am there and Im telling you even on a REAR PROJECTION
screen that had clear gradient issues L to R , the footage looked incredible...

and then when they announced how small the 10BIT file was streaming, (10mb/s) I nearly died...

what was MORE amazing was how most people in the audience seemed to miss the boat on that one.

as it received the weakest applause of the day... I was like WTF? are these people on lithium?

I must have clapped alone 3 or 4 times along with a handful of people who "got it" and seemed to meekly applaud.

It as FREAKING AMAZING... and all I could think of as a producer is...

sweet revenge... DISTRIBUTORS
will soon be forced to stop charging gouge fees. ... or at the very least they will be excited to spend LESS on P and more on A (P&A speak) for filnms

RED TEAM rocked. The lens tests were just plain sick (in a good way)
edge to edge sharpness. And the mechanics felt tight and super pro.

so as frustrated as you might feel, rest assured it was not bullshit. The REDRAY looked amazing...

 

[Erik Ponti]

Sounds just like what we heard about recording 4K to a compact flash card when we showed the 1st samples. And we did show pics... and it did happen. You just weren't there. Of course there will be a time when we post side by side images... but we'll do that according to our plan, not yours.

What I meant is you did not show pics that people can analyze at home.
And actually, as for the 4K to CF card thing... that is much more feasible with pre-RED tech than what you are claiming here.

Everybody thought it looked great, but let me tell you this: many people say aXXo's XviD pirate rips look great. They don't. Conclusion: you can't trust people when it comes to video quality, especially not a large group of people.

Actually, skeptics are absolutely necessary to help us get the word out. Thanks.

I doubt it. If I saw promise in this [right now], I would probably be running around and telling everyone I know about REDRAY... but now, not really. I told one person about it, and I don't intend to tell anybody else because they wouldn't care I'm skeptical about it. If instead, I said it showed a lot of promise, they would be more interested.

 

[Jannard]

What I meant is you did not show pics that people can analyze at home.
And actually, as for the 4K to CF card thing... that is much more feasible with pre-RED tech than what you are claiming here.

Everybody thought it looked great, but let me tell you this: many people say aXXo's XviD pirate rips look great. They don't. Conclusion: you can't trust people when it comes to video quality, especially not a large group of people.


I doubt it. If I saw promise in this [right now], I would probably be running around and telling everyone I know about REDRAY... but now, not really. I told one person about it, and I don't intend to tell anybody else because they wouldn't care I'm skeptical about it. If instead, I said it showed a lot of promise, they would be more interested.

You are telling the world about your skepticism right here. That forces people to take a stand... believe or doubt RED.

So far, our track record seems to be in tact. When a product is available, you'll be able to decide for yourself whether you like it or not. Until then, you get to think anything you wish. But it is our job to make the product... not convince you today of anything.

My best,

Jim

 

[Raul Gonzo]

What is the projected (subject to change) release for RedRay? and price?

 

[Jannard]

What is the projected (subject to change) release for RedRay? and price?

Later this year and under $1000.

Jim

 

[Zach Nelson]

wow!!! :thumbsup:

 

[Raul Gonzo]

thank you Jim!

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Later this year and under $1000.

Jim

Amazing!

 

[Vigna Raajan]

This is great news...Thanks Jim

 

[Tom Lowe]

Can we transcode random 4K footage (scanned from 35mm film or shot on DSLRs) to REDray or whatever and play this stuff at 4K on a 4K LCD or projector?