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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED ONE / DSMC 1 upgrade program finally has an end date.

M. FERGUSON said:
Aloha,

One thing that would be very helpful to me and I believe many other RED X DRAGON owners is to know How long the RED X DRAGON will remain a viable Camera in the the RED Digital Cinema System. Many extremely beautiful and very success films - Hollywood and otherwise - have been made with RED's EPIC and RED's X DRAGON Digital Cinema Cameras. Can RED give current RED X DRAGON owners any ideal how long there will sill be good support on many levels for these amazing DSMC1 Cameras - the success of which is what has in part allowed RED to develop even further and push it's Digital Cinema technology into RED's present remarkable DSMC2 System which itself will soon push development to even more astonishing heights in motion and still image capture Digital Cinema Systems. I understand that with progress what came before is replaced but RED has always strived to keep things from becoming obsolete too quickly with it's modular system and generous up-grade path. Is it possible for RED to let filmmakers who now own RED X DRAGON Cameras know how much longer it will be possible for them to create the high quality films that the RED X DRAGON is capable of. How much longer will the RED X DRAGON Cameras modular equipment, parts, and repair support be available to present RED DSMC1 RED X DRAGON owners. I'd like very much to be confident that my RED DRAGON X Cameras and the considerable amount of DSMC1 RED equipment I've purchased to work within the DSMC1 system will be an extremely useful and efficient high quality Digital Cinema System I can work with for at least a few more years. Keeping the RED DRAGON X cameras in top form for some time to come will allow users of the DSMC1 system enough time to develop the means to move up to the latest and best RED DIGITAL CINEMA Equipment available. I guess I'm just saying that it may take those of us who don't live and work in the areas of this country and the world that are centers of creative film development a bit longer to generate the means to join the up-grade path as quickly as we'd like to and we don't want to be left in the creative doldrums with obsolete equipment. I became a "REDUSER" to avoid that situation - because RED planned to make Obsolescence obsolete. Don't get me wrong - I'm not a "Fanboy" but I've always been and always will be a major supporter of RED - the wonders it's created and the amazing spirit that drives all the fine people I know at RED.

All the best...

Aloha,
Mike
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Hey Mike, thanks for your words, I am totally on the same boat as you.
Well, I believe the problem for the Dragon owner, is to update our camera with the same framerate in native resolution for the same range of price of our Dragon when we bought it.

Actually we need to add 35k to go to Weapon 6k dsmc2 or Weapon 8k for higher FPS. And this is a big loss for independant, for sure we win money with the system, but buying the camera 2years ago and add again extra 35k because maybe the DSCM1 will not be supported (should be 6month like 2 years we don't know), I am not too much happy. I waiting the feedback of my rep, I hope for Dragon owner we could have a extra time spare replacement.
The Epic W look fantastic but FPS in 6k cropped mode is not interesting for me, I love the picture I have in native resolution (for the field), and actually I don't have any solution for obtain higher speed on DSMC2 without paid 35k.

If a DSMC2 camera coming with higher FPS even if in 6k with the same range as the cost of the Epic Dragon, for sure I will update, but I am not quite sure it was on the plan of Red :p

The position of the weapon 6k vs the Epic dragon 6k was good, everybody have FPS from 26k to 50k, now, not that case.

I am not complaint about the system, it's a fantastic camera, it's just my feeling today about what I can do with the Dragon to resell it after the 28 september, with for sure a lot of value loss if the repair is not possible or upgrade to an Epic W that I wont be happy for the low FPS in native mode for 15k (really good cost for upgrade !).
 
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alexandre Chailan said:
Hey Mike, thanks for your words, I am totally on the same boat as you.
Well, I believe the problem for the Dragon owner, is to update our camera with the same framerate in native resolution for the same range of price of our Dragon when we bought it.

Actually we need to add 35k to go to Weapon 6k dsmc2 or Weapon 8k for higher FPS. And this is a big loss for independant, for sure we win money with the system, but buying the camera 2years ago and add again extra 35k because maybe the DSCM1 will not be supported (should be 6month like 2 years we don't know), I am not too much happy. I waiting the feedback of my rep, I hope for Dragon owner we could have a extra time spare replacement.
The Epic W look fantastic but FPS in 6k cropped mode is not interesting for me, I love the picture I have in native resolution (for the field), and actually I don't have any solution for obtain higher speed on DSMC2 without paid 35k.

If a DSMC2 camera coming with higher FPS even if in 6k with the same range as the cost of the Epic Dragon, for sure I will update, but I am not quite sure it was on the plan of Red :p

The position of the weapon 6k vs the Epic dragon 6k was good, everybody have FPS from 26k to 50k, now, not that case.

I am not complaint about the system, it's a fantastic camera, it's just my feeling today about what I can do with the Dragon to resell it after the 28 september, with for sure a lot of value loss if the repair is not possible or upgrade to an Epic W that I wont be happy for the low FPS in native mode for 15k (really good cost for upgrade !).
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Jarred has stated specifically that the only cameras that might not be able to have parts supplied for are the M/X sensors. i.e. Red One M/Red One M-X, Scarlet-X, Epic-X.... NOT Epic-Dragon, Scarlet-Dragon. He then went a step further and stated that the costs of fixing whatever may be wrong with the M/X could probably be comparable to just putting a dragon sensor in the camera.

In some regards I feel bad for him for saying anything because he never said "your cameras are bricked... sorry... move to DSMC2 if you wanna ride with us..." He simply stated that the parts will not be made anymore but that they would still do their best to accommodate (i.e. replacing a m-x sensor with dragon if the sensor needed swapped.) He was just being transparent. However, had he not told anyone and then when the customer had to send in the camera for a board swap or sensors swap, he just said "sorry guys, we dont have any more of those parts in stock... But because we're out of stock on those parts we're going to just swap it with a dragon sensor/board for the same cost." he would've been viewed as a hero. Either way, I think it's all going to be fine. In fact, in some ways it could be a good time to buy a m-x to be honest... If it does in fact need a new sensor it may be cheaper than buying an epic dragon to begin with. Epic Dragons are incredible cameras I'm floored at how much they're going for now. Anyways, just my 2 cents fwiw.
 
Hey John,

Thanks for your words.

I know that Jarred talk about DSMC1 m-x but not Dragon, but it still DSMC1, that's why I asked the question. In FB Red group for exemple, people ask too, because it's totally fair from Jarred to let them know that the DSMC1 epic m-x could have a problem with spare part, but as DSMC1 is touched by that, Dragon owner like me could ask the question.

Like I said, for my own needed, if the EPIC-W have more FPS I already upgrade my Dragon because the price is perfect for upgrade.

John Brennick said:
In some regards I feel bad for him for saying anything because he never said "your cameras are bricked... sorry... move to DSMC2 if you wanna ride with us...".
Click to expand...

Nope, it's not what I mean from my case ;)
 
Jarred Land said:
Upgrades from any DSCM2 (except Raven) to Weapon CF is of course possible.

Once you have the CF ( or forged ) Weapon, things will start to be pretty kick ass, pretty soon.

Epic-W is in a pretty great spot to move to that Weapon CF.

I've been swapping sensors back and forth for a bit now on my CF testing for this new program. it's incredibly liberating.

Being able to jump between VV Dragon then to Monochrome Helium then to 8K Helium to 6K dragon to "something else" then back to VV all in just one body opens up a whole new creative freedom when you prep those big jobs in advance. In a weird way it stops you from thinking about the camera and much more of the nuances... like Film stocks in the olden days or more like when you think about picking lenses. It's pretty cool.
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this is very interesting. will this program be possible to lets say drop off at the NYC store and they do it there? Or will camera have to go back to LA for the sensor swap?
 
I understand the whole MX to Dragon policy, to put in some perspective, if something goes wrong with an old MX sensor, you had to pay $6,500, even after all this time. So, what would be better? Put that $6,500 into an older camera that could have any number of no longer made parts go out down the line or put that $6,500 into a new camera that's well supported into the future? I'd say it would be time to upgrade and if you still want that MX camera, you can roll the dice on an entire MX camera package on the used market for even less than the price of the sensor replacement. If there was anything I wish RED could do is also have a trade in from RED Mags to RED Mini Mags because that's the part that really hurts to upgrade. I can't complain though, I just scored a great deal on some 128gb RED Mags recently so I'll be good for a long while even to an Epic Dragon in the future. The interesting thing will be the adjustment in the used market for DSMC1 cameras, even the Dragons, because not only is there the new MX phase out but the competition is heating up with new RAW cameras on the lower end so it will be interesting to see where the used RED market factors into all that.
 
Hi all,
I want to upgrade my Scarlet Dragon to Epic-W.
I just bumped into a minor problem, the transfer of ownership is from 9 nov 2016. :001_huh:
The maximum date to be eligible for RED Owner Pricing is before october 11th.
Does this mean where i am afraid of? Not a single change to upgrade?
Please help a fellow reduser out.
Thanks!

Best regards
Martijn Hoiting
Netherlands
Scarlet Dragon #05003 owner
 
Yeah I really want the VV ANA too.

Jarred, what if I traded in my epic dragon AND my scarlet MX?!?

I know I know, it's a begging branch not an olive branch ...

8^p

2x anamorphic on red is so good.

Craig Lees
UK
 
It won't be on red.com you need to talk to your Bombsquad rep. The mx / dragon mono to weapon mono is a secret upgrade path .
 
Jarred any way I can go to carbon weapon (dragon) from weapon magnesium?
 
Jake Wilganowski said:
Jarred any way I can go to carbon weapon (dragon) from weapon magnesium?
Click to expand...

Brent stated a few pages back you could technically do this, but pay the difference between the Mg original price and the CF.

I really wish we could just move that way at a lower cost, but I imagine it can be more complicated than taking our Mg parts and putting them in the CF housing.

I like how Helium looks, but I'm really, really in love with the Dragon sensor size and my current 6k workflow.
 
Jarred Land said:
Wont be a link. This is gonna be our little secret. You are gonna need to call your RED rep and tell them you want the "Olive Branch"

$10k upgrade for your M or MX whatever to Scarlet-W, or $12k for the Scarlet-W brain, Canon Mount and Base V-lock Expander.

Give Brent a bit to get this sorted.. I just dropped this bomb on his lap ( as usual ) and he will let you know when you can start calling in.

Actually I take the secret part back. You should tell all your friends that are still on M or MX about Olive Branch. I really want everyone on DSMC2.. it's going to be important.
Click to expand...

So I can upgrade my Scarlet-X to a Scarlet-W for $10K, and this is just swapping the brain? I still have to send my Scarlet-X in? And this is good until September 28th? Sorry playing catch up with this thread, apologize if any of this has already been stated.
 
Jarred Land said:
Wont be a link. This is gonna be our little secret. You are gonna need to call your RED rep and tell them you want the "Olive Branch"

$10k upgrade for your M or MX whatever to Scarlet-W, or $12k for the Scarlet-W brain, Canon Mount and Base V-lock Expander.

Give Brent a bit to get this sorted.. I just dropped this bomb on his lap ( as usual ) and he will let you know when you can start calling in.

Actually I take the secret part back. You should tell all your friends that are still on M or MX about Olive Branch. I really want everyone on DSMC2.. it's going to be important.
Click to expand...

Sorry, all, as you can imagine, setting up an upgrade path has a lot of i's to dot and t's to cross. But, good news, we are all set.

MYSTERIUM or M-X owners can upgrade to a SCARLET-W brain for the old price of $9950. Or, get a SCARLET-W V-Lock I/O package (brain, Al Canon mount, V-Lock I/O Expander, case) for $12,000. Only way to place an order is through calling your rep.
 
Brent@RED said:
Sorry, all, as you can imagine, setting up an upgrade path has a lot of i's to dot and t's to cross. But, good news, we are all set.

MYSTERIUM or M-X owners can upgrade to a SCARLET-W brain for the old price of $9950. Or, get a SCARLET-W V-Lock I/O package (brain, Al Canon mount, V-Lock I/O Expander, case) for $12,000. Only way to place an order is through calling your rep.
Click to expand...

Thanks Brent! And this is good until September 28th? And do I send my Scarlet-X in?
 
So I am about to pay for the upgrade and doing one last look before I send in my beloved Epic Dragon for the upgrade to Epic W. Sort of bummed at the FOV I will have to settle for when shooting 120fps (which is important for me, as I film a lot of cars).

Currently, my Epic Dragon can shoot 120FPS in 4K HD with a crop factor of 1.96x - effectively turning a 24mm lens into a 47mm lens.
Once I upgrade to Helium, the only way to shoot 120FPS is again, in 4K HD, but at a crop factor of 2.69..... 24mm lens becomes a 64.6mm.

Yes, I know I could upgrade to Weapon 6K, but its crazy to me that I would have to drop 35K on the upgrade to maintain the same functionality of the camera I currently have... With the same sensor...

Sigh...
 
And an Epic MX can shoot full sensor width at 5kws at 120fps too. Not as clean / as much DR/ or as good colours as dragon /dsmc2 though but pound for pound or for dollar to dollar, just shows what a great cam it still is.

Full 8k Epic-w still amazes me though.

Craig Lees
UK
 
Last ditch effort here. The market for selling Epic Dragons is rough. Any chance some kind of trade in for a Scarlet-W is possible?

I just remember reading selling was the recommendation and I've been on that train for months. No luck. Totally understand if its something RED can't do. Just figured I'd ask one last time.
 
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