'Red' name in URLs

[John Marchant]

Can someone give me the lowdown on the degree of acceptability / legality of URL's such as http://www.red-one-cameraman.co.uk/ ?

Its not my area of expertise, and knowing how fickle the world can be I can imagine this sort of thing rates anywhere between fair game and treason...

:confused1:

 

[Jarred Land]

not legal.

 

[PatrickW]

Doing a few searches on "trademark + domain name" will bring up a lot of relevant information.

Best advice is to consult a lawyer and or Red to see if your domain name is in violation of Red's IP.

Red doesn't own the word "red" but has the trademark protected for their industry. So RedCamera.com would not be cool, but you can totally be fine with thecolourREDismyfavourite.com

Your intentions for the site are also relevant as to if you are pursuing a commercial site or something non-commercial

 

[Chris Luker]

RED doesn't do rentals, so a variation of redrentals.com should be okay, right?

 

[John Marchant]

Its an interesting situation; I can find several high profile examples of it going on - I'm not going to name them right here, as I'm not trying to cause trouble... Google turns them up easily enough, and that's kind of the point.

As you say, Red doesn't do rental, but then neither does it provide crew, and Jarred's pretty clear on the example URL I gave...

 

[Jarred Land]

RED doesn't do rentals, so a variation of redrentals.com should be okay, right?

We do rentals for customer repairs in certain situations when the camera repair is our fault.. so our mark is protected for that.

The only variation on redrentals.com you could do is something that doesn't have RED in the name.

and to answer the other post.. we don't actively go and hunt for companies that violate our trademark so i'm sure there are some out there. But when we find them, we deal with them.

 

[John Marchant]

Cheers Jarred, just fired you a PM, but this answers most of my question.

 

[Mark Allen]

Trademarks are not so specific to activities vs. industries.

http://uspto.com/ is the site for all kinds of info and searches.

 

[Antony M]

not legal.

Nice simple answer.

But as such, probably incorrect/misleading.

"Each country or territory has its own trade mark system.
The mark BUDWEISER is a classic example: in some countries it refers exclusively to the beer brewed by the Czech brewery; in some countries the trade mark is owned by the US brewers of Bud."

So to be accurate, which countries has "Red" been trademarked in?

Certainly in the USA.
What about other countries?

And with specific reference to domain names:

"A good illustration of this in practice is the case of Prince v Prince. This was a challenge by the US manufacturers of sports goods to the use by a British computer consultancy company. The British company had registered www.prince.com in good faith and were using it. The US company Prince, who manufacture sports equipment had a US trade mark for, amongst other things, sports goods. They had no registered trade mark either in the UK or the respect of computer consultancy services. They threatened to sue the British company for infringement of the US trade mark; the British company counter-sued in the UK for unjustified threats of trade mark infringement. They won. The US company had to be content with www.princetennis.com."


On a more pragmatic basis however, if you are using Red cameras, do you really want to piss off Red?

Probably not.

 

[Antony M]

In fact, looking into case law, it suggests that "red-one-cameraman.co.uk" would be perfectly legal.

The Panel [arbitration panel of the World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO)] concluded that the use of a manufacturer’s trademark as a domain name by a dealer or reseller should be regarded as a 'bona fide offering of goods or services' […] if the following conditions are satisfied:
-The respondent must actually be offering the goods or services at issue
-The respondent must use the site to sell only the trademarked goods (or offer of services)
-The site itself must accurately disclose the respondent’s relationship with the trademark owner
-The respondent must not try to “corner the market” in all relevant domain names, thus depriving the trademark owner of reflecting its own mark in a domain name.


But once again, you probably don't want to go against the wishes of Red, even if it is legal.

 

[Chris Luker]

The only variation on redrentals.com you could do is something that doesn't have RED in the name.

Dang. :confused5:

 

[Justin McAleece]

Red Rental websites

Red Rental websites

I brought up this discussion last week and my post was nearly instantly deleted. Perhaps RED didn't want anyone else to read what I had tried to write in a very tactful and fair way. Is anyone else interested in my specific situation dealing with this exact issue which is ongoing with RED right now? Or should I not bother since it will immediately deleted without a trace anyway?

 

[Johnny Friday]

I brought up this discussion last week and my post was nearly instantly deleted. Perhaps RED didn't want anyone else to read what I had tried to write in a very tactful and fair way. Is anyone else interested in my specific situation dealing with this exact issue which is ongoing with RED right now? Or should I not bother since it will immediately deleted without a trace anyway?

Saw your post within seconds of you posting...and then tried to find in order to subscribe only three to four minutes later...but never could find it. Rather interesting how quickly it was removed. I am assuming that there was more to the picture than your post revealed. There usually is in a he said/she said. But that is of course rather presumptuous of me as well.....what ever came of your case and in fact were you in some way defiant to a red request?

 

[Justin McAleece]

basically we got a letter saying "you have 30 days to transfer your website domain to RED, thank you."

We are still reviewing our options at this point and seeing if we agree.

Today we received another letter that basically said "since you're going to transfer your domain, here's how to do it. Thank you."

So at this point we feel a little bullied and bewildered.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I brought up this discussion last week and my post was nearly instantly deleted. Perhaps RED didn't want anyone else to read what I had tried to write in a very tactful and fair way. Is anyone else interested in my specific situation dealing with this exact issue which is ongoing with RED right now? Or should I not bother since it will immediately deleted without a trace anyway?

I saw it too, Justin and took 15 minutes or so to write a fairly clear (IMHO) reply and description of both sides of the issue and possible solutions only to hit post and have it go off into the ether because the thread was gone. Was a little annoying.

Unfortunately, it's their house and you were shown the door.

 

[Michael Hastings]

basically we got a letter saying "you have 30 days to transfer your website domain to RED, thank you."

We are still reviewing our options at this point and seeing if we agree.

Today we received another letter that basically said "since you're going to transfer your domain, here's how to do it. Thank you."

So at this point we feel a little bullied and bewildered.

Justin, from your original post you got some advice that you may be within fair use. There are many strategies ranging from ignore, to a personal response, to a satirical commentary website or YouTube like the "united breaks guitars" guy. But this is their house so probably not a fair place to hash it out.

 

[Johnny Friday]

basically we got a letter saying "you have 30 days to transfer your website domain to RED, thank you."

We are still reviewing our options at this point and seeing if we agree.

Today we received another letter that basically said "since you're going to transfer your domain, here's how to do it. Thank you."

So at this point we feel a little bullied and bewildered.

Not knowing anything when it comes to law of trademarks and such. But how is one legally obligated to transfer a domain name. I understand you may be in violation of law to use it or do business with it, but isn't there some type of restraint of trade issue here in that you purchased that URL and own it and can sell it to ACME plumbing or RED or whomever? Doesn't this happen all the time....people buy up URL's all the time and offer them for sale to companies that could utilize them as a web presence? Far from your point, nor am i trying to stir the pot, but seems strange you bought a traded commodity and are told to transfer it to "said" party. I'd think you can offer it for sale no?

 

[Terry VerHaar]

basically we got a letter saying "you have 30 days to transfer your website domain to RED, thank you."

We are still reviewing our options at this point and seeing if we agree.

Today we received another letter that basically said "since you're going to transfer your domain, here's how to do it. Thank you."

So at this point we feel a little bullied and bewildered.

Justin - Just as a curious bystander, I am wondering what the actual URL was. In all honesty, I can see how certain things might be considered misleading and objectionable by RED. One example might be www.red-camera-rentals.com might be a problem since it sort of implies that it is connected with RED. OTOH, I might argue that www.rentals-of-red-cameras.com (or some similar - but more creatively developed - variation that makes it clear the RED refers to the camera and not the company) might pass muster. Obviously, I don't know the situation but, as I said, I am curious.

 

[Tim Hole]

This is the same with pretty much all brand names, in the world we live in they need to be protected at all times. Reputation is EVERYTHING.

How long would my domain name last Arri-cameraman or Sonyindependents. You are feeding from their trough and it is unnecessary. You could probably however have the RED icon on your site (and you can put it at the end of your film) as long as it is clear that you are literally a supporter and users/providers of the equipment for rental.

 

[Steve Gal]

if you type in redrentals.com it brings you to indierentals.com. If you type in redcamerarentals.com it brings you to hdcamerarentals.com is this that they own those domain names and are having the address redirect to their sites? is that legal?