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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED KOMODO vs GEMINI vs HELIUM COMPARISON

Thank you for sharing Tim!
 
Great to see. But personally i find it impossible to make any real judgment between the three. One thing I do when comparing image qualites between cameras like this is to try find a part of the image that has a gradient preferably from no exposure to over exposure for all 3 cameras then zoom into it 1:1 or 1:1 of the lowest res / smallest of the sensor. Then I push iso to 12400 or such to get a closup of the different behaviors in the low end. Then do the oposite in highlights / push iso down to 50 iso to see how different they break in the highlights. As if looking on full images like this that is rather well exposed the differences are not really showing.

From looking at the Xlya sharts I seen posted I can only assume that the difference in DR between the 3 is so small it would be extremly difficult to notice on a somewhat descent exposed image without enhancing the differences.

Regarding color differences between the three I can only say I seen bigger variations between three monstros used with the exact same lens etc. Simply put, cameras vary slightly so if not balanced in post there is often variances between 2 of the exact same setups. You can always shoot a chart to balance on to get things lined up. But coments here like, komodo looks sligtly more blue etc. is what I see as difference found between any two cameras.Which is not a problem, easily sorted with rgb lift gamma gain in post.

So as I see it the 3 cameras comes with slightly different textures but you really have to crunch it to be noticible the rest is just color calibration.

Then ofcourse you got different resolution, sensor size global and none global shutter, possible framrates and all else things in the mix. But from what I seen so far, one thing is clear, komodo does not really stand any shorter then the other red cameras when it comes to DR and colors. So yes very possible to intercut them with each other without problems.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Great to see. But personally i find it impossible to make any real judgment between the three. One thing I do when comparing image qualites between cameras like this is to try find a part of the image that has a gradient preferably from no exposure to over exposure for all 3 cameras then zoom into it 1:1 or 1:1 of the lowest res / smallest of the sensor. Then I push iso to 12400 or such to get a closup of the different behaviors in the low end. Then do the oposite in highlights / push iso down to 50 iso to see how different they break in the highlights. As if looking on full images like this that is rather well exposed the differences are not really showing.

From looking at the Xlya sharts I seen posted I can only assume that the difference in DR between the 3 is so small it would be extremly difficult to notice on a somewhat descent exposed image without enhancing the differences.

Regarding color differences between the three I can only say I seen bigger variations between three monstros used with the exact same lens etc. Simply put, cameras vary slightly so if not balanced in post there is often variances between 2 of the exact same setups. You can always shoot a chart to balance on to get things lined up. But coments here like, komodo looks sligtly more blue etc. is what I see as difference found between any two cameras.Which is not a problem, easily sorted with rgb lift gamma gain in post.

So as I see it the 3 cameras comes with slightly different textures but you really have to crunch it to be noticible the rest is just color calibration.

Then ofcourse you got different resolution, sensor size global and none global shutter, possible framrates and all else things in the mix. But from what I seen so far, one thing is clear, komodo does not really stand any shorter then the other red cameras when it comes to DR and colors. So yes very possible to intercut them with each other without problems.
Click to expand...

Well said Bjorn. Hit the nail on the head. The most noticeable difference between the three to me are the slight differences introduced with higher resolution oversampling.
 
I'm so amazed that RED has been able to produce a GS camera with this kind of dynamic range! Unbelievable really..

And thanks for posting this! Must be a lot of work putting this together.
 
part 2 - ISO NOISE TEST is live and now added to the thread. Thank you for all of your feedback and support you guys! I am really thankful that everyone is enjoying these tests ... well, for the most part people are :)
 
Tim Daust said:
part 2 - ISO NOISE TEST is live and now added to the thread. Thank you for all of your feedback and support you guys! I am really thankful that everyone is enjoying these tests ... well, for the most part people are :)
Click to expand...

Holy cow! That was absolutely impressive (not to say unbelievable)! Thanks for all the effort you put into those comparison vids. Looking forward to the Low Light Comparison. BTW, did you also check the GEMINI in LL mode? I'd guess that Komodo wouldn't perform much worse than GEMINI @ LL...
 
Tim Daust said:
I was completely blown away by the results of this ISO NOISE TEST Comparison between the KOMODO, GEMINI, and HELIUM.
Click to expand...

That's putting it mildly. I didn't expect that Komodo would perform so much better at higher ISO's. I agree that I'd love to see how it stacks up to Gemini in low-light mode, but that's perhaps for another time. Thanks so much for the testing and sharing.
 
Nick Morrison said:
That Komodo is almost indistinguishable and has global shutter and no red orbs are all very good things.

Thanks for the test Tim.
Click to expand...

Not really. Helium and Gemini have finer image, less contrast and more filmic organic look. You can notice it on outside shots. Also colour is more refined.....
 
Tim Daust said:
PART 2 - ISO NOISE TEST



all footage is straight out of camera
IPP2 CHROMA NOISE REDUCTION (CNR) enabled on all 3 cameras
RESOLVE CAMERA RAW DECODE QUALITY : FULL RES. PREMIUM

some perceived softness in the following test could be a
result of critical focus variations not camera sharpness


I was completely blown away by the results of this ISO NOISE TEST Comparison between the KOMODO, GEMINI, and HELIUM. In tradition of the first part of this test, I will withhold sharing my opinion until after I have shared all of the parts of this series.


I have several more parts coming to this comparison test, the next video is the LOW LIGHT TEST comparison.
Click to expand...

Wow. Much better quality at high iso than I expected. Thanks for taking the time to post these Tim.
 
just to remind everyone because Ive had a few messages about it - All of these tests in the comparison series are shot with skintone highlight filter in the GEMINI & HELIUM. Only at the very beginning of the filming of the Dynamic range test did I try the standard OLPF. Knowing KOMODO is based off of skintone highlight I didnt see any reason to test with standard or lowlight OLPFs...

also another question and comments I've been getting is in regards to GEMINI low light mode. This test for me was about finding out how KOMODO compared to GEMINI & HELIUM. I dont think its fair to compare a feature that one camera has where the others don't. I also wouldnt expect KOMODO to out perform GEMINI in LL mode. Yes KOMODO has a global shutter, but that isnt a "feature" you can turn on or off like Low light mode. I approached this test with the intent of comparing KOMODO to my other two cameras because that was the question(s) I was fielding the most after receiving my KOMODO. It was more of a personal exploration of the differences between the cameras so that I could best answer questions (some of them very specific) about the subtle and not so subtle differences between the cameras/sensors. After I encountered some shocking revelations, I got pretty excited to share them. I decided to share these tests because seeing is believing. No amount of words, or ranting in front of the camera to you , or voice over, would ever convince you of something that showing you wouldnt do better/faster. Images speak for themselves.


Thanks for the support everyone. I hope you enjoy the rest.
 
Really appreciate the effort you put into these Tim. Thanks for doing them.
 
Tim Daust said:
just to remind everyone because Ive had a few messages about it - All of these tests in the comparison series are shot with skintone highlight filter in the GEMINI & HELIUM. Only at the very beginning of the filming of the Dynamic range test did I try the standard OLPF. Knowing KOMODO is based off of skintone highlight I didnt see any reason to test with standard or lowlight OLPFs...

also another question and comments I've been getting is in regards to GEMINI low light mode. This test for me was about finding out how KOMODO compared to GEMINI & HELIUM. I dont think its fair to compare a feature that one camera has where the others don't. I also wouldnt expect KOMODO to out perform GEMINI in LL mode. Yes KOMODO has a global shutter, but that isnt a "feature" you can turn on or off like Low light mode. I approached this test with the intent of comparing KOMODO to my other two cameras because that was the question(s) I was fielding the most after receiving my KOMODO. It was more of a personal exploration of the differences between the cameras so that I could best answer questions (some of them very specific) about the subtle and not so subtle differences between the cameras/sensors. After I encountered some shocking revelations, I got pretty excited to share them. I decided to share these tests because seeing is believing. No amount of words, or ranting in front of the camera to you , or voice over, would ever convince you of something that showing you wouldnt do better/faster. Images speak for themselves.


Thanks for the support everyone. I hope you enjoy the rest.
Click to expand...
Cameras differ one from each other with features they have, not some ideas. Nobody will shoot more noisy material for the sake of experiment. It's a saint idea to use the best of possibility's the camera can do. If you going to move on with lowlight tests, maybe use all the range camera can shoot. It will be the same unfairness just to shoot 5K, just because one of the cameras shoots only this resolution.
 
Tim Daust said:
PART 2 - ISO NOISE TEST



all footage is straight out of camera
IPP2 CHROMA NOISE REDUCTION (CNR) enabled on all 3 cameras
RESOLVE CAMERA RAW DECODE QUALITY : FULL RES. PREMIUM

some perceived softness in the following test could be a
result of critical focus variations not camera sharpness


I was completely blown away by the results of this ISO NOISE TEST Comparison between the KOMODO, GEMINI, and HELIUM. In tradition of the first part of this test, I will withhold sharing my opinion until after I have shared all of the parts of this series.


I have several more parts coming to this comparison test, the next video is the LOW LIGHT TEST comparison.
Click to expand...

Fascinating. Love how well the Komodo image holds up at higher ISOs, especially at a chroma level. The color fidelity really holds, and when there is noise its quite fine and consistent (which makes it easier to work with). Impressive indeed.

Thanks again for the test Tim. Very helpful and generous of you.
 
Looks to me like the Komodo is giving Gemini a problem..It looks better on all test so far.
 
Aaron michaels said:
Looks to me like the Komodo is giving Gemini a problem..It looks better on all test so far.
Click to expand...

As stated above the other cameras where not shot to their full potential.

Using the skintone OLPF is far from ideal in low light. It brings out noise equal to stopping down more than a stop.
Not using the LL feature on gemini is also adding to a few stops loss.
 
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