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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Dragon

Phil Holland said:
I'm anticipating Dragon to be a sensor and hardware upgrade. It will be interesting to see how it scales on the Epic and Scarlet.

Personally I'd love a FF35 (width primarily) sensor in there. I think 3:2 is a just a sexy format for IMAX and several other common motion picture crop factors. However, I can see many reasons towards staying at 2:1-ish. At around 36mm wide we could see a max resolution landing between 6K-9K. At the high end 9k is close to the original "game plan" for a FF35 sensor. However, handling 9k material is going to be interesting with media costs being what they are. I would expect to Red to update Redmag SSD prices this year to stay a bit more competitive with what's coming on the horizon, but that's up to them. If there will be a higher capture resolution, expect Redmags of 512GB and 1TB to exist very quickly.

I think a 6k sensor would yield better noise performance rather than 9k. I don't think it will be exactly 6k if that's the case. Something like 6.6k will likely be the target. If we are targeting a 4k finish, this makes a lot of sense.

6k-9k FF35 would be great for still shooters for sure. Dynamic range increase would also be great. I'm pretty damn impressed with DR from Epic and Scarlet already and we have HDRx in there for insane situations right this second. Built in ND would be great, but not a deal breaker for me. Having the DR in camera to shoot ISO 50-6400 would be killer though.

Whatever increase in maximum resolution, I'd like to see both cameras capable of capturing motion "at speed" at the max available resolution. Meaning 24fps, 30fps, or *wishful thinking* - 48fps.

For example:
Epic Dragon = 6.6k 120-160fps max
Scarlet Dragon = 6.6k 30-48fps max

That would put Red well ahead of what's coming in the next 2 years. Hope we land close to that.
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I do not find media expansive. We where working in 4k 16 bit uncompressed back in 2001 and then we even had to shoot and process film before we could digitize it into our 3 huge raids of 2 tb that we bought on 3 years leasing... then the cost of capture today seam quite easy to overcome. now it's 10 yeas later so I think it should not be any problem to get on the leasing contract again :)
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
More resolution is a sort of big trap for the latest de-Bayer algorithms...
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That's one of the reason I think we'll see a larger sensor and increased resolution. I don't think Red will just keep the same sensor size and just make it 9k in there. That's bad news for noise and DR.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I do not find media expansive. We where working in 4k 16 bit uncompressed back in 2001 and then we even had to shoot and process film before we could digitize it into our 3 huge raids of 2 tb that we bought on 3 years leasing... then the cost of capture today seam quite easy to overcome. now it's 10 yeas later so I think it should not be any problem to get on the leasing contract again :)
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Same here back in 1999, 4k film scans at 16bit! However, we'll see media costs drop again and the availability of higher capacity SSDs at a lower cost. I just believe they will get cheaper as soon we'll be able to purchase 3TB SSD drives for about the same cost as a 64GB Redmag.
 
I suspect Full Frame 35mm sensor. And new FF35 Red Pro Primes to match that are Super Speed sized.

Specs? 15 stops DR. 1600 Native ISO. Totally usable at 3200. 500 fps 2k EPIC. 120fps 2K SCARLET.
 
I have an amazing camera in my hands. The next sensor will only be better but it does have to suck to be RED sometimes when everyone expects them to deliver crazy high advances every time they take a step. Good luck pleasing everyone ;)
 
Just my addendum - I am with Sanjin on this one. I don't think we will see a resolution change on this one. I think it will be an upgrade similar as the one from M --> MX. But for epic this time. I think the real resolution upgrade will be Monstro (I am assuming Monstro is still on the cards??).

Either way, it is quite clear what everybody wants. This is pretty bloody good free market material for red... lol
 
All i want is that there is an upgrade path for RED ONE.
 
I don't want higher resolution on my Epic. A clean 4k debayer is already amazing and the future industry standard.

But I would really love to have a couple more stops of dynamic range. I dream of shooting day interiors without clipping the windows. Yes, we have HDR-x which is great for some applications, but that is a bit of a workaround in my opinion. The DP's choosing Alexa and film over Red do so because of the better highlight protection (and alleged skin tones).

Higher clean ISO is also nice and much more useful than higher resolution.
 
I know how to light, and adding 2-3 stops DR would be a godsend. I use HDRx quite a bit to protect highlights, and almost always +2 is all I need. If that were baked into the native DR of the chip I would use HDRx 50-60% less often than I do.

That plus ISO up to 3200 clean, would open up the world.

I'm already very happy with Epic skin tones.
 
I don't think we'll see much more than 14 stops native DR (up to 20 with HDRx... do we really need that much?)... I haven't read any cmos sensor developments claiming any massive increase in dynamic range (although it's RED, so you never know.)

Low-light is where it'll get interesting. MX was clean at ISO800, when everything else was native 320. Now that everything is ~ISO800, it'd be nice to see clean ISO6400 (with the chip rated at ISO1600). That'd be hot.

As for resolution, 5k for 4k finish is pretty awesome. Maybe have the same, but running cooler or having more frames per second?

I'd really like to see some cheaper RED media at NAB, too... Nothing calls for it and there' s been no hinting or anything, but it'd definitely be a nice surprise/bonus.
 
Justin Kirchhoff said:
FF would be fine for me. More dynamic range? It's not necessarily needed. Just learn how to light!
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Knowing how to light... and lighting 400 feet of street are two very different tasks. As is trying to keep a cloud from clipping while a mountain clean and noise free. I don't have a 100,000,000MW light kit in my bag. Also in that category would be live performance where you can't go up to the booth and go "hey, I would really appreciate it if you could just bring down the key a bit it's blowing out my shot, k thanks." :D

Extra Dynamic range is also welcome with bayer pattern since white-balancing down to Tungsten means I lose at least a stop of Dynamic Range between RED clipping and Blue Crushing.

I think 1600 native ISO is the default. I would expect Monstro to at least match the C300 for lowlight and best the Alexa on Dynamic Range. Years ago RED thought they could get 2+ stops over MX which would put us into the 15-16 stop range.
 
Julio Quintana said:
I don't want higher resolution on my Epic. A clean 4k debayer is already amazing and the future industry standard.

But I would really love to have a couple more stops of dynamic range. I dream of shooting day interiors without clipping the windows. Yes, we have HDR-x which is great for some applications, but that is a bit of a workaround in my opinion. The DP's choosing Alexa and film over Red do so because of the better highlight protection (and alleged skin tones).

Higher clean ISO is also nice and much more useful than higher resolution.
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Agree.

Btw, David Mullen shoots with Alexa these days.

Maybe we should ask him WHY?

Also I didn't like skin tones in Hugo (Alexa) but neither at Lincoln Lawyer (Red MX) and now have both of them on BR disks.
 
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