Red Dragon: Candle and Match Low Light Tests

[Matt Ryan]

Eeek. The last few posts in this thread were a bit of a drag to read, but anyone looking at an r3d knows there is a lot there.

Everyone is going to have their preferences though and that's cool, just the same way it's cool that RED is made in the USA.

Lets all all take the high road, Rodney is great at what he does.

Just saying, sometimes it's moments like theses that give reduser a bad wrap. We are here because we love cinematography and we love the tech. Let's post some samples of that colorful flame!

battistella

Exactly David. I want to have an actual conversation with Rodney rather than attack him. That's not the way to do things in my book. My goal was to find similar samples from other systems to further the conversation between us. Hopefully he takes time to look over the samples. I have huge respect for him and his work, I'm a nobody.... Just would love a decent conversation on the topic vs. a tweet like what he posted.

 

[Phil Holland]

I have shown Dragon now to two DPs shooting 100 million+ features in 2014.

Rodney's a good dude who's used a good deal of cameras over the years. He just needs some hands on experience with it. Pretty much how things work with everybody. He's referred to the Canon C300 as the "camera of the decade", while that's nice. I'm sure he doesn't feel that way against Alexa image quality.

Honestly, grab those Alexa and F65 DPX frames and look at this .R3D of my ugly mug at the same ISO and WB. It's not really something you can have wildly different opinions on.

 

[Matt Ryan]

I have shown Dragon now to two DPs shooting 100 million+ features in 2014.

Rodney's a good dude who's used a good deal of cameras over the years. He just needs some hands on experience with it. Pretty much how things work with everybody. He's referred to the Canon C300 as the "camera of the decade", while that's nice. I'm sure he doesn't feel that way against Alexa image quality.

Honestly, grab those Alexa and F65 DPX frames and look at this .R3D of my ugly mug at the same ISO and WB. It's not really something you can have wildly different opinions on.

Exactly Phil. Those CML samples tell a lot even though they aren't a direct comparison. He just needs some Dragon hands on, cheers on your offer!

 

[Nick Morrison]

Eeek. The last few posts in this thread were a bit of a drag to read, but anyone looking at an r3d knows there is a lot there.

Everyone is going to have their preferences though and that's cool, just the same way it's cool that RED is made in the USA.

Lets all all take the high road, Rodney is great at what he does.

Just saying, sometimes it's moments like theses that give reduser a bad wrap. We are here because we love cinematography and we love the tech. Let's post some samples of that colorful flame!

battistella

Fair enough. I revised my posts! What better way to usher in the new year?

 

[David Battistella]

Hey nick,

was as not picking on you. I just recognize this as "one of those moments" where the ship could stay from the fine course it is on.

battistella

 

[Nick Morrison]

Hey nick,

was as not picking on you. I just recognize this as "one of those moments" where the ship could stay from the fine course it is on.

battistella

Haha, no worries. I figured that's where you were going, so though it prudent to take your lead and lean on utmost decorum. Seems more fitting anyway, and truthfully I'd like to see reduser become even more open and inviting in 2014.

Happy new year.

 

[David Battistella]

and truthfully I'd like to see reduser become even more open and inviting in 2014.

Happy new year.

that seems to be the way it's trending nick. Lots of new blood with some of the original hardcore users with a lot of respectful, useful exchanges. Reminds me of 2007!

Battistella

 

[Elsie N]

Why does it matter what Rodney Charters thinks?

 

[Nick Morrison]

that seems to be the way it's trending nick. Lots of new blood with some of the original hardcore users with a lot of respectful, useful exchanges. Reminds me of 2007!

Battistella

Makes me happy to hear that. Fingers crossed!

 

[Alain M]

It's all about sharing opinions, facts and getting into conclusions in a educated respectfully manner. The fact that there are a group of great guys here who spend so much time teaching, testing, sharing technical facts make me wonder WHY some others take it as a negative journey instead of appreciating and even perhaps when not agreeing at least try to be nice and cool to say "I do not agree" without any aggressive uneducated responses.

We should all be thankful into 2014 more than 2013 for having these few people around helping...As far as I know, they don't get paid from RED...They do it because they want to and we should all be grateful for that!

 

[Matt Ryan]

Why does it matter what Rodney Charters thinks?

It matters that any person test a camera first before making any comments. Rodney used to be a huge supporter of Red and a Red owner himself. It's about improving the perception of RED by educating and sharing info rather than writing him off. I'd love for every high profile DP to test out a Dragon first, then they can say whatever they want, good or bad about it.

Rodney has seemed to change his mind a bit already. He gave me his personal email and we exchanged some comparisons of Alexa, film, and some Dragon shots. This was his response.

 

[Dustin Wilson]

Thanks Phil!!!

I just played with your file a bit in RCX.

These are my newest findings described below:

Sorry but again me to complain about OLPF flare!!!

See it clearly at the right third part of the image below @ ISO 12800.

@ ISO 800 is well hidden.

@ ISO 2000 is slightly visible.

Now I call it a phantom flare just because you never know actually when it will start to appear at an image.

Hope that RED is working on a new OPLF glass design with a new coating that will eliminate that optical artefact.

Clicking the right mouse button to open the above image at the bigger dimension in a new tab!!!!

Dragon is surely the best sensor available for digital cinema today and really it deserves to get a much better flare-less OLPF!!!

And I sure Jim is aware about this optical issue and he will do his best to fix it during 2014!!!!!

Happy New Year!!!!

I knew I couldn't be the only one bothered by this. It's very visible in OffHollywoods match test as well. Hopefully this gets cleared up soon...

 

[Elsie N]

It matters that any person test a camera first before making any comments. Rodney used to be a huge supporter of Red and a Red owner himself. It's about improving the perception of RED by educating and sharing info rather than writing him off. I'd love for every high profile DP to test out a Dragon first, then they can say whatever they want, good or bad about it.

Rodney has seemed to change his mind a bit already. He gave me his personal email and we exchanged some comparisons of Alexa, film, and some Dragon shots. This was his response.

Yeah, I would have had no problem with his first tweet you posted if he had said something like "The flame isn't the right color." but when he said "Get an Alexa", I dismissed him as an Arri-an and anti-RED. Good to see he is open to the possibility the Dragon delivers.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Finally got this up on Youtube and Vimeo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C0rrAcDxTE

https://vimeo.com/83527575

 

[jason dewey]

Phil, do you sleep?

 

[Phil Holland]

Phil, do you sleep?

Yes. Even while I'm awake sometimes

 

[ericyoung]

Hey Nick: there's an Avid version of Neat Video too. Yeah, I'm also an Avid guy

But I must admit I usually do it in Resolve or Nuke or After Effects because Avid is more for the creative edit for me.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Does Neat Video run faster in Resolve 10 than in AE?

 

[Paul Harb]

I hope Red and its community shed this type of attitude in 2014.

Why does it matter what Rodney Charters thinks?

 

[Vadim Bobkovsky]

I hope Red and its community shed this type of attitude in 2014.

It's always good to behave nice, though last time I checked it was a free speech forum, not paid member ASC site, CML or cinematography.com where you can't express far out independent opinion on things if you want to work on any kind of set ever again. I also understand that you must always say nice things on the interwebs to improve reduser's public image among those types (universally respected, opinion making ones). No one, even the little guy in the industry wants to end up like Rodriguez, Duffy or much, much worse, nobody dreams about being an untouchable in the field where n... personal connections and self-proclaimed TPTB is everything. Maybe the so called "reduser attitude" is still big pain in the butt for Red, if they need to look more attractive in Hollywood, who knows. For better or worse, some guys posting on this forum are not a part or do not want to be a part of the system, so they would think it's not necessary for them to play by the book like the others. As long as you can get your hands on and shoot Red without your union ID card and register on this forum you will meet people like that in the online community. It's not exactly Arri/Pana rental gear party, the user base is much wider (again, for better or worse). ...Just saying, lolz.

 

[Paul Harb]

I hear ya, I just know Red has an image issue around town due to this kind of stuff within the community of owner/operators. The whole, us vs them thing...I do get it and where it comes from but its silly and honestly doesn't help anything IMO.

It's always good to behave nice, though last time I checked it was a free speech forum, not paid member ASC site, CML or cinematography.com where you can't express far out independent opinion on things if you want to work on any kind of set ever again. I also understand that you must always say nice things on the interwebs to improve reduser's public image among those types (universally respected, opinion making ones). No one, even the little guy in the industry wants to end up like Rodriguez, Duffy or much, much worse, nobody dreams about being an untouchable in the field where n... personal connections and self-proclaimed TPTB is everything. Maybe the so called "reduser attitude" is still big pain in the butt for Red, if they need to look more attractive in Hollywood, who knows. For better or worse, some guys posting on this forum are not a part or do not want to be a part of the system, so they would think it's not necessary for them to play by the book like the others. As long as you can get your hands on and shoot Red without your union ID card and register on this forum you will meet people like that in the online community. It's not exactly Arri/Pana rental gear party, the user base is much wider (again, for better or worse). ...Just saying, lolz.