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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Control performance

Bérenger Brillante said:
I've tried for the first time the app yesterday.
Latest firmware build, latest app version.

I'm on two Huawei P20. And the experience was the opposite, it was so smooth, no stutter, no problem at all. I have also a Vaxis KV 600 that I didn't tested.
I'm kinda worried about smartdevices horsepower reading this as I ordered 3 Huawei Matepads with cages, handles and powerbanks. I hope I didn't throw 1500€ out of the window.
It probably has more power than a 3 years old P20 though, but I don't know.

Anyone using tablets as monitoring devices ?
Click to expand...

Interesting. That's a much older Device than mine. I'm on a Xiaomi Mi 11 with 8GB RAM. So I doubt the issue is the phone not being fast enough.
 
Paul Leeming said:
Yeah, Red really, REALLY needs a first party monitor using the top pogo pins. It blows my mind why they didn't update the Raven 4.7" to work or even build a pogo to pogo pin connector for the Hydrogen.
Click to expand...

The biggest reason is that they can't provide enough power from the camera. But all of that is just tackling the issue in the wrong way. The solution is to simply make a monitor that is native to the camera and uses BP batteries. Since most got those batteries for the camera itself, it makes perfect sense to have a native display powered by the same types of batteries. It also makes it relevant to buy smaller BP batteries but use the same charger for everything.

It's really not rocket science, I just don't know why this solution isn't up on the table. It's like they are fine with the SDI solution and don't want to make people angry for getting expensive SDI monitors, which doesn't make sense really.

A 5-inch Red monitor with BP battery mount that can be attached directly or with a Red Arm and cable... just do it.
 
Here's another video that shows the lag of monitoring through Red Control. This is with the Komodo Link and the inconsistencies are really bad for any kind of critical monitoring. That something "works" is not the same as being viable for shoot. A tripod shot is ok with this option but doing handheld or gimbal work just doesn't cut it. If I do a fast pan or any faster movement and I get this stutter, I may end up in the wrong composition because I don't get a fluid motion to work off.

 
Christoffer Glans said:
Here's another video that shows the lag of monitoring through Red Control. This is with the Komodo Link and the inconsistencies are really bad for any kind of critical monitoring. That something "works" is not the same as being viable for shoot. A tripod shot is ok with this option but doing handheld or gimbal work just doesn't cut it. If I do a fast pan or any faster movement and I get this stutter, I may end up in the wrong composition because I don't get a fluid motion to work off.

Click to expand...

My brand new iPhone 12 Pro Max is way worse than that. Especially, if I enable Focus peaking. Before the update it was really smooth. Now barely usable.
 
Han Vogen said:
My brand new iPhone 12 Pro Max is way worse than that. Especially, if I enable Focus peaking. Before the update it was really smooth. Now barely usable.
Click to expand...

Which supports my thesis that this has nothing to do with the performance of the phones or using WiFi or Komodo Link. The basic performance of this setup always produces stutters, frame inconsistencies, and lag that makes it unusable for anything but concluding that "it just works". Komodo Link is a $395 product and while it removes total loss of video stream that can happen with WiFi, it doesn't provide any other improvements for monitoring.

So, I think it's pretty obvious how Red should solve this:

- Improve the performance of monitoring through the Komodo Link, which would also mean WiFi performance gets better since this is about a base performance before wireless streaming problems get introduced.
- Make a dedicated Komodo monitor for direct attachment to the top of the camera or cable from the top of the camera, and on the back, feature a BP battery power solution to be used with the native batteries for Komodo.
- Make a new Komodo Expander Module that focuses on SDI video output so that if the SDI board is blown, it's just the expander module and not the camera that gets damaged. It can also feature an HDMI output in order to be a dedicated expander module for video out options.

That's it.
 
I'll chime in here to say my experience mimics many others in this thread, totally stuttery and unusable no matter what the phone is. I wouldn't even wanna send the director this feed. Latency is one thing but frame drops and skips is another. This is over wifi,that is. I can't personally test the Komodo Link but apparently it's not any better.
 
What I dont really get is how can raveneye be so much better in terms of studdring etc than the red app. One would think that there where not so many different protocols for streaming video to an iphone over wifi.
 
I use this app with both iPhone and Android devices. As of late it has become totally impractical due to dropped frames and freezing.
 
Han Vogen said:
I use this app with both iPhone and Android devices. As of late it has become totally impractical due to dropped frames and freezing.
Click to expand...


Yes it only tends to work when its not needed or nobody is watching. :)
 
It's disappointing to say the least. I really wonder where the bottle neck and issue is.

I try to use it as a directors monitor feed but even that is fraught with issues.

I presume on the Komodo that the final step is taking that existing monitor image, compression and transmission. Is the stuttering coming from that? Or is it the other end, the phone end. It's interesting that the link really offers little difference. Image over USB C - that can do everything SDI can and i was hoping that would be what the Komodo was kicking out but maybe it's not.

How awesome it would be to get a better image this way...

cheers
Paul
 
Bérenger Brillante said:
I've tried for the first time the app yesterday.
Latest firmware build, latest app version.

I'm on two Huawei P20. And the experience was the opposite, it was so smooth, no stutter, no problem at all. I have also a Vaxis KV 600 that I didn't tested.
I'm kinda worried about smartdevices horsepower reading this as I ordered 3 Huawei Matepads with cages, handles and powerbanks. I hope I didn't throw 1500€ out of the window.
It probably has more power than a 3 years old P20 though, but I don't know.

Anyone using tablets as monitoring devices ?
Click to expand...

I had a shoot yesterday, and the app was completly unusable. Though I have to say my bulletproof Ghost Eye was struggling too. It was not the video feed that was lagging though, it was the app.
Constant disconnection, and really hard to reconnect.

The building was obviously problematic. We were shooting in a swimming pool, surrounded by concrete, and the ceiling around the pool was something 2m20.

I really need to test the vaxis.
 
paulcurtis said:
Image over USB C - that can do everything SDI can and i was hoping that would be what the Komodo was kicking out but maybe it's not.

How awesome it would be to get a better image this way...
Click to expand...

No, it's not. Not as long as there are problems with the feed being stable without frame drops and stutterings. Maybe it's because it goes into a phone with an app. But that just gives another point to my idea that Red should do a dedicated monitor that connects directly to the top or goes through the Komodo Link. Maybe sell them as a package, I dunno, but just do it is my point. With everything else Red makes, another monitor with BP power is not really rocket science. With how cheap display technology is today, and the fact that they made it before, then a low cost BP powered monitor should be more than reasonable as an addition to the Komodo.
 
Bérenger Brillante said:
I really need to test the vaxis.
Click to expand...

Have you tried a lollipop antenna or just borrowing one from a router and replace the one on Komodo? It helps with the transmission. But it doesn't help with the framerate consistency and stability of motion. If that exists with Komodo Link, it exists with WiFi plus the transmission problems.
 
paulcurtis said:
It's disappointing to say the least. I really wonder where the bottle neck and issue is.

I try to use it as a directors monitor feed but even that is fraught with issues.

I presume on the Komodo that the final step is taking that existing monitor image, compression and transmission. Is the stuttering coming from that? Or is it the other end, the phone end. It's interesting that the link really offers little difference. Image over USB C - that can do everything SDI can and i was hoping that would be what the Komodo was kicking out but maybe it's not.

How awesome it would be to get a better image this way...

cheers
Paul
Click to expand...

I mentioned earlier in this post that I used a TP-Link portable WiFi router powered via USB. I connect the app to it and connect the camera to it. I have some parts coming from Small rig tomorrow to permanently mount the router to my camera. I can walk down the street, through the whole house and get the same fps as I did standing next to it now. Before I had to stand within 3 feet of the Komodo for the Red Control app to work properly.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Have you tried a lollipop antenna or just borrowing one from a router and replace the one on Komodo? It helps with the transmission. But it doesn't help with the framerate consistency and stability of motion. If that exists with Komodo Link, it exists with WiFi plus the transmission problems.
Click to expand...

I didn't & I should have, I completly forgot about that.
I have big long range antennas at home, if that doesn't work, I'll try mushrooms antennas.
 
Lars Wikstrom said:
I mentioned earlier in this post that I used a TP-Link portable WiFi router powered via USB. I connect the app to it and connect the camera to it. I have some parts coming from Small rig tomorrow to permanently mount the router to my camera. I can walk down the street, through the whole house and get the same fps as I did standing next to it now. Before I had to stand within 3 feet of the Komodo for the Red Control app to work properly.
Click to expand...

Doesn't explain why the wired link doesn't work well though...

cheers
Paul
 
Christoffer Glans said:
No, it's not. Not as long as there are problems with the feed being stable without frame drops and stutterings. Maybe it's because it goes into a phone with an app. But that just gives another point to my idea that Red should do a dedicated monitor that connects directly to the top or goes through the Komodo Link. Maybe sell them as a package, I dunno, but just do it is my point. With everything else Red makes, another monitor with BP power is not really rocket science. With how cheap display technology is today, and the fact that they made it before, then a low cost BP powered monitor should be more than reasonable as an addition to the Komodo.
Click to expand...

I don't know that Red are even using video over USB C but that is a standard these days.

All i'm wondering is where is the issue... is it compression of frames out of the camera or the app?

Using a phone to monitor is really really useful.

There are obviously technical hurdles somewhere but i have no idea why!

I can use iDevices as second monitors, wirelessly or wired over USB and was seeing full screen full frame rates. So i can't see that being the issue, but then how hard is it to compress and shove out a constant flow of image data either..

cheers
Paul
 
Lars Wikstrom said:
I mentioned earlier in this post that I used a TP-Link portable WiFi router powered via USB. I connect the app to it and connect the camera to it. I have some parts coming from Small rig tomorrow to permanently mount the router to my camera. I can walk down the street, through the whole house and get the same fps as I did standing next to it now. Before I had to stand within 3 feet of the Komodo for the Red Control app to work properly.
Click to expand...

Excellent solution. I tried infrastructure mode and had a really good connection using my local server. Also, using a lollipop antenna. Ordered a portable router and I'll try that solution.
 
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