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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Camera Losers

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Andrae Palmer said:
Well I'll never understand a hater troll that goes out of his way to post his opinions inexperienced as they may be.
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I wouldn't go getting high and mighty there, Andrae. Some people in this world have worked with actual film and do not find the RED to be anything special. I suppose next you're going to discount the opinions of people like Richard Boddington who are not RED fanboys but managed to independently fund, film, self-distribute their own film (shot on 35mm, no less), and have made out quite well. Interesting enough is this forum was calling him a RED basher not two years ago and implying he knew nothing. I don't think you've enjoyed that same level of achievement.
 
You're all forgetting a third middle ground. There are whores and there are self respecting whores. And then there are the apathetic pimps such as myself.

I'm not buying my RED to make any money off of it. I'm buying it because I want it for my projects. But... I'm not going to have time to use it 24/7 so I will happily undercut everybody on the planet if it means I get a little extra income. A few days rental can buy more kit for me to use.

Paying off my investment isn't really something I care about. But if their dollars are green and everyone has sufficient insurance... Let's just say that while I might have self-respect, my camera doesn't. :D
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
You're all forgetting a third middle ground. There are whores and there are self respecting whores. And then there are the apathetic pimps such as myself.

I'm not buying my RED to make any money off of it. I'm buying it because I want it for my projects. But... I'm not going to have time to use it 24/7 so I will happily undercut everybody on the planet if it means I get a little extra income. A few days rental can buy more kit for me to use.

Paying off my investment isn't really something I care about. But if their dollars are green and everyone has sufficient insurance... Let's just say that while I might have self-respect, my camera doesn't. :D
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Well said Gavin, I think someone on here is finally making sense.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
You're all forgetting a third middle ground. There are whores and there are self respecting whores. And then there are the apathetic pimps such as myself.

I'm not buying my RED to make any money off of it. I'm buying it because I want it for my projects. But... I'm not going to have time to use it 24/7 so I will happily undercut everybody on the planet if it means I get a little extra income. A few days rental can buy more kit for me to use.

Paying off my investment isn't really something I care about. But if their dollars are green and everyone has sufficient insurance... Let's just say that while I might have self-respect, my camera doesn't. :D
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Do you have any RED Pro Prime lenses... I may need an extra set for 3D production. I will be willing to pay you one dollar a day. I could use your camera body as a back up... one dollar for that too. Let me know if you are interested. I am insured.
 
Gavin, I am in the same boat.. i dont rent my shit without me..
But, to a friend or someone i can trust with good insurance, ill give them a good deal on gear.. but this conversation is more about service rendered as a DP/operator and the gear..

I wont give myself out for 175/gear + myself as a dp/operator like alot of people are doing.. THAT is WHORING
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
I wont give myself out for 175/gear + myself as a dp/operator like alot of people are doing.. THAT is WHORING
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So if a prostitute makes a good rate does that make her not a whore? What does the amount of money you make have anything to do with it? Many actors refer to "whoring" as the opposite...selling out your artistic soul for money. If that's true then you would be better to take less for a project you believe in then take more for a project you don't.
 
I think we have gone off track.

Maybe we can all agree on the following:

1. We all work for free or cheap for good friends, artistic projects or bit of cash on the side. All good.

2. We don't like the fact that some producers try to lure us in with false claims of future work, deferred rewards, or other manipulative tactics.

3. Just because someone is willing to give a low rate, for whatever reason, does not mean that is the fair and reasonable rate for an expensive kit and talent.

4. Red is cool!

Fair enough?
 
Gavin,

I am serious about renting your equipment. I know some people that will work for food... that is too expensive for me. If you can beat their price I will rent from you. I am willing to pay one dollar a day for your camera (negotiable). I hope you are a passionate film maker and willing to work. As stated I am insured and the project is a cool one. PM me.

Matthew,

I wish you actually owned something instead of just being a troll... that way I could rent from you too.
 
Andrae Palmer said:
Gavin,
Matthew,

I wish you actually owned something instead of just being a troll... that way I could rent from you too.
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I'm not a troll and I'm a little tired of you saying I am. I posted on here because this topic is of interest to anyone, not just RED users. The off-topic subforum is a place where anyone (I thought anyone) could post. And I do own equipment, it's just film gear and I doubt you'd appreciate it anyway. But oh well, you can and will think what you want about me. But over on that other forum, I am always willing to take time and offer helpful advice to those that have asked for it even when other people acted too good or whatever. I find that the film community tends to be more helpful of newbies and their concerns than the digital community but that's another topic entirely. As for this one, chase the big rate if you can but enjoy it while it last because it won't last forever. There will always be someone better, cheaper, and with a more expensive toy than you.
 
Matthew W. Phillips said:
I'm not a troll and I'm a little tired of you saying I am. I posted on here because this topic is of interest to anyone, not just RED users. The off-topic subforum is a place where anyone (I thought anyone) could post. And I do own equipment, it's just film gear and I doubt you'd appreciate it anyway. But oh well, you can and will think what you want about me. But over on that other forum, I am always willing to take time and offer helpful advice to those that have asked for it even when other people acted too good or whatever. I find that the film community tends to be more helpful of newbies and their concerns than the digital community but that's another topic entirely. As for this one, chase the big rate if you can but enjoy it while it last because it won't last forever. There will always be someone better, cheaper, and with a more expensive toy than you.
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What you got some 4mm film in a can?
 
This is all very troubling, because it is very bad for the industry as a whole.

What it means is that people who are trying to make a living at what they are doing, (owner ops, rental houses, private renters, DPs, crew, etc) are forced to compete with people who are not trying to make a profit. Lots of these people are in fact operating at a loss, but havent done the long-term math to realize it.

The only way to compete with someone who is operating at a loss is to undercut them FURTHER until they go out of business and you spike up your price to recover the losses you sustained, or get out of the market entirely. Neither is good for anyone. Including our customers.

A further misconception is that operating at a loss for the short term will allow you to get ahead somehow and make a film that will push you forward in your career. The opposite is much more true. Make an honest living, treat your customers and your competition with equal respect, and make films on the side with the friends you make. This way you wont be under the time crunch of "until i run out of money, have to sell my gear and have to move in with my friends"
 
Andrae Palmer said:
Great find. :lol: I'm all about getting paid too... no room for trolls in my life.
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Then stop being a troll, Andrae. And FYI, many businesses take as much as 5 years or more to break even. If you were working every weekend with your RED package, and let's say you spent $50k, your break even point would be ~$192. Therefore, taking $200 for a weekend is about the right ballpark, market wise, when considering the grand scale of business. As for accounting for your skill that you're offering? That's what the extra $8 is for. :001_cool:
 
Jeff, here's another thread to close down. Jeez, the level of conversation here has hit a new low...
 
Matthew W. Phillips said:
Then stop being a troll, Andrae. And FYI, many businesses take as much as 5 years or more to break even. If you were working every weekend with your RED package, and let's say you spent $50k, your break even point would be ~$192. Therefore, taking $200 for a weekend is about the right ballpark, market wise, when considering the grand scale of business. As for accounting for your skill that you're offering? That's what the extra $8 is for. :001_cool:
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Jeff,

Can you ban Matthew Phillips permanently for being retarded?
 
Andrae Palmer said:
Jeff,

Can you ban Matthew Phillips permanently for being retarded?
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Actually, you should be banned for attacking me personally. If this forum had any integrity, you would be. I guess libel isn't an offense here eh? Nothing I've said to you is libel or Ad Hominem.
 
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