Red Camera Losers

[Zakaree Sandberg]

the guys who are doing this are just hurting everyone else.. producers will get in the mindset that this is the NORM. just like how productions moved from 10 hours normal to 12 hours normal (yet still writing it up as a 10 hour day).

Its bogus. I laugh at these offers. No I will not rent my package out that cheap.. and I certainly wont work that cheap. No matter how bad the economy is.. I wont whore myself out like these guys

 

[Yousuf Abbasi]

the guys who are doing this are just hurting everyone else.. producers will get in the mindset that this is the NORM. just like how productions moved from 10 hours normal to 12 hours normal (yet still writing it up as a 10 hour day).

Its bogus. I laugh at these offers. No I will not rent my package out that cheap.. and I certainly wont work that cheap. No matter how bad the economy is.. I wont whore myself out like these guys

If the economy gets bad enough, you will.

Just saying.

At some point, people need to do what they need to do to pay the bills, especially if their gear has just been sitting there collecting dust.

I don't see anything wrong with renting out your stuff cheap.

I DO see something wrong with a slimeball producer trying to take advantage of the situation above.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

but its the people that give these retarded rates that give slime ball producers the gull to ask for such terrible rates.
sure ill operate your show for 500 bucks.. but thats just me operating (not DPing) and its with a hvx

 

[Yousuf Abbasi]

but its the people that give these retarded rates that give slime ball producers the gull to ask for such terrible rates.
sure ill operate your show for 500 bucks.. but thats just me operating (not DPing) and its with a hvx

Slimeball producers will always ask for terrible rates. In bad times, it just so happens people will actually pay them. Can't do anything about vultures, it's part of business cycles and in some ways necessary for economic recovery.

 

[Alan Skinner]

If the economy gets bad enough, you will.

Just saying.

At some point, people need to do what they need to do to pay the bills, especially if their gear has just been sitting there collecting dust.

I don't see anything wrong with renting out your stuff cheap.

I DO see something wrong with a slimeball producer trying to take advantage of the situation above.

Yousuf,

If the economy gets that bad, then someone should sell their camera for food and not work for $5/hr. They should then take some of the profits from the sale of the camera and buy a big package of pencils to sell on the street corner. They could make more money that way and they wouldn't have to feel like a loser. Selling pencils at a reasonable rate is a noble profession. Working for minimum wage with a $50,000 to $80,000 investment in tools is a loser situation.

So, if things get all that bad, I say hold your heads up high folks and get some pencils!!! (I think the Target "back to school" campaign has a deal on #2s) :lol:

 

[Stephen Williams]

Hi,

One of the 'side effects' to Red selling over 5,000 cameras in a short time. Probably half of those cameras just sit idle every day. Imagine what will happen when the 2/3 inch fixed lens Scarlet comes out, $99 will be a good rate.

Stephen

Stephen

 

[Yousuf Abbasi]

Yousuf,

If the economy gets that bad, then someone should sell their camera for food and not work for $5/hr. They should then take some of the profits from the sale of the camera and buy a big package of pencils to sell on the street corner. They could make more money that way and they wouldn't have to feel like a loser. Selling pencils at a reasonable rate is a noble profession. Working for minimum wage with a $50,000 to $80,000 investment in tools is a loser situation.

So, if things get all that bad, I say hold your heads up high folks and get some pencils!!! (I think the Target "back to school" campaign has a deal on #2s) :lol:

I'm not saying renting your gear cheaply in bad times is the best option, but I am saying that for some people it IS an option. You're right, they could sell their entire kit -- but PERHAPS that person believes in a several months the market may come back, and so selling the camera now is giving up future income. It all depends on who you are and what your situation is. :hat:

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

ya but if that person A will work for 1$ and the market bounces back.. that person will still be only worth 1$

 

[Mitch Gross]

Best day of my life was when my first child was born. Second-best day (well okay that would be when the next one was born, but go with me on this) was shortly thereafter when someone called me for a $100/day job and I realized that the nanny I'd have to pay for the day would be making $90. $10 to work your crappy job or stay at home and play with my newborn? It was so freeing.

 

[Alan Skinner]

ya but if that person A will work for 1$ and the market bounces back.. that person will still be only worth 1$

So True!

Hard to get what you are worth. Much, much harder to get what you are worth after you have worked cheaply...........:beatdeadhorse5:

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Best day of my life was when my first child was born. Second-best day (well okay that would be when the next one was born, but go with me on this) was shortly thereafter when someone called me for a $100/day job and I realized that the nanny I'd have to pay for the day would be making $90. $10 to work your crappy job or stay at home and play with my newborn? It was so freeing.

I'm sorta enjoying that same freedom a lot lately.(No irony intended...)

Hey. I don't need to pay to work -
If I am not to get paid, I much prefer doing my own unpaid gigs, than the ones for others.
Or just chill, play with the kids or geek out on whatever subject or person I enjoy.

Having a lot more fun with both work and play these days...

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

I refused all those cheap rental jobs and still have a pressure from one guy here in

Vienna, Austria to "accept" that "rules" of the local market but I'm not crazy and even I could stop to offer my RED1 to that sort of local market at all.

But if you could "dig" more there you can always find decent professional customers and nice people.

 

[Nikolai Pigarev]

Glad to see that same shit is happening all over the place Recently in moscow encountered a 300$/day - red kit with lenses and two techs . Or another common thing is well we are poor students can you give us a good rate or better free... and do you may be know where we can rent a full set of Master Primes!!! at 70$ a lens

 

[Brent J. Craig]

Or another common thing is well we are poor students can you give us a good rate or better free...

I think (legitimate) students are a special case. Helping people to learn and become good filmmakers benefits us all. I have no problem whatsoever helping out students. Student deals and slimeball producer deals are completely different.

 

[sergio arguello]

There is no $50 buck per day movie job that will help you break into anything better than another $50 per day movie job. The producer I mentioned vowed never again to hire the people that the court ordered him to pay. One former crew member actually gave him back the money. This guy breaks the law, is caught, ordered by the court to make restitution to the people he failed to pay minimum wage to, and has the temerity to resent those people who willingly worked for him for less than the legal rate. That is the personality you're dealing with, with these guys. He's a financial Sociopath. Can you really argue that working for such a person will help your career?

eeewe some needs to kick his f^&*( A$$

 

[Tom Lowe]

There is no $50 buck per day movie job that will help you break into anything better than another $50 per day movie job.

I respectfully disagree. I have worked on ultra-low SAG shows where nearly everyone was making 50 bucks a day. That was years ago. Now, those same people are in unions and working on major network TV shows or features, with successful careers. You have to start somewhere. Working those $50 indie shows is all about learning and meeting people.

 

[Ace]

I respectfully disagree. I have worked on ultra-low SAG shows where nearly everyone was making 50 bucks a day. That was years ago. Now, those same people are in unions and working on major network TV shows or features, with successful careers. You have to start somewhere. Working those $50 indie shows is all about learning and meeting people.

Yeah Ive seen the pursuit of happiness too. So I have to agree with you on this. I think "starting out" is an exception. Theres no harm in getting your foot through the door. As long as its for/with the right people.

I wouldn't get too worried about under cutters charging 150$. If they want to be silly with their investment or whore it out, that is up to them. Point is, people who get worthwhile work are the ones who add value to their service.

One thing that I do find fascinating to this day, is how many opportunities the RED camera has opened up for individuals who would've never dreamed of ascending the ladder so rapidly in the industry. In the early days of RED's release, owning a RED camera pretty much got you into most doors on high profile work requiring the camera. And even if you just accompanied the camera, it was good networking and experience. Not so much now, but I see how some may see it as a door opener.

 

[Chris Kenny]

I respectfully disagree. I have worked on ultra-low SAG shows where nearly everyone was making 50 bucks a day. That was years ago. Now, those same people are in unions and working on major network TV shows or features, with successful careers. You have to start somewhere. Working those $50 indie shows is all about learning and meeting people.

Sure. But there's a bit of a difference between just working for $50 a day as a PA (or even a DP), and working for $50/day plus showing up with $40K+ worth of equipment that you bought with your own money.

Hi,
One of the 'side effects' to Red selling over 5,000 cameras in a short time. Probably half of those cameras just sit idle every day. Imagine what will happen when the 2/3 inch fixed lens Scarlet comes out, $99 will be a good rate.

You've been throwing around warnings about hilariously low rates for well over a year. The truth is, while there might be some desperate people (especially these days) willing to let cameras go out for really low prices, rental rates are still in large part determined by a) expected gear lifespan (accounting for durability and obsolescence) and b) market value of gear. Even the HVX can typically still pull $200+ without an operator, and a minimal shootable Red package is at least 4-5x the cost. There's a price floor that (a few desperate people aside) gear that expensive won't drop below, probably somewhere in the $400-600 range. (Real prices; I know it's common rental house practice to have list prices 20-30% more than what any repeat customer ever actually pays.) And in my experience it hasn't gotten even that bad yet.

It's true that small shops shouldn't think they're going to make a bundle on rentals. But there are often other reasons to own equipment. Being able to provide gear might add value to your other services, or you might regularly use the gear to produce internal projects, for instance. A model which mixes rentals in with this sort of other use can be perfectly viable.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Sure. But there's a bit of a difference between just working for $50 a day as a PA (or even a DP), and working for $50/day plus showing up with $40K+ worth of equipment that you bought with your own money.

Or your rich Daddy's money....

 

[jimhare]

Amen Brother!

I pay my owner-operators $1500 for a 3/4 day live event, and feel guilty if once in a while I have to ask them for a discount to maybe $1000 or $1250.

I could say that by using them 10 times a year they should do it for $500, due to the high profile and regular work, but I'd rather sleep well at night than extort money out of honest, hard working people.

Share the love. With the right jobs, there is enough for everyone.

When faced with a ridiculously low fee offer, I just smile, tell them "Quality work will always cost you what a professional is worth - so I'm not the person for your project", and then I simply walk away.

Beyond my work as a director, DP, and cinematographer, I also produce. My philosophy when crewing a production has always been to surround myself with the very best professionals I can afford, then treat them very well, and pay them what they are worth. As a result they invariably do their best work - and in the process we create an ongoing business relationship.

If every producer in this industry would have worked that way all along, this would be a radically different industry - and there would probably have never been any movements to form unions.