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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Qnap raid system

this is getting beyond the scope of RedUser.Net. These questions have nothing to do with RED camera products. I am more than happy to answer your questions about QNAP, drives, LTO, etc. if you contact me privately.

Bob Zelin
 
A little update. I should have all 10TB disc to saturate a Qnap TS 1685 next week. But I have waited to se if Qnap would release a new nas at BVE. But it seams they did not. While looking at the the bve online I saw a company named http://www.stornext.com/solutions/post-production/ that sells nases. I thought I contacted them and here what they have to offer before ordering an Qnap.

Did anybody heare any news from Qnap on BVE?

Is anybody here familiar with stornext.com. ? I have never heard of them?

Tomorow finally I put in an order for a nas/media server since I will have all twelve 10TB discs (plus one spare) any day now.
 
Hi Joel -
I think that you should do a little research, or speak to a dealer about some of these systems Joel. Stornext is Quantum Stornext which is what Apple XSAN was based on. Quantum Stornext is the most complex, and most expensive shared storage system that exists for video editors. With all the brands out there, like QNAP, Synology, GB Labs, LumaForge, Facilis, EditShare, AVID, etc. WHY would you be considering StorNext ? If you contact them and tell them that your budget is $3000 for the system, they will laugh at you. Their budgets are more like $300,000. Any other system in the planet will be less expensive, and easier for you to use.

Bob Zelin
 
Bob Zelin said:
Hi Joel -
I think that you should do a little research, or speak to a dealer about some of these systems Joel. Stornext is Quantum Stornext which is what Apple XSAN was based on. Quantum Stornext is the most complex, and most expensive shared storage system that exists for video editors. With all the brands out there, like QNAP, Synology, GB Labs, LumaForge, Facilis, EditShare, AVID, etc. WHY would you be considering StorNext ? If you contact them and tell them that your budget is $3000 for the system, they will laugh at you. Their budgets are more like $300,000. Any other system in the planet will be less expensive, and easier for you to use.

Bob Zelin
Click to expand...

It was a company that I haven't heard and so I went to there website and chatted with a employee there to research. Thought I would know if it was interesting or not in a few minutes. The website was not so clear what the product was exactly.

I was thinking this might be the case since they do not list any prices and there is very little info on their hardware at their site. Also the guy I chat with didn't answer any question but put up a phone meting with the salesman. Was little annoying to not get any info or recommendations today is I wanted to just get my qnap order in today. But since I started the conversation with them I thouht I should give the salesman a chance. But in short there website was quite confusing to me.

To the budget. They know what budget Im interested. But I much like to just know what price range there project has. I let you know what I ordered but im pretty sure it will still be the 1685 (which I should have 13 disks for any day now. )

Update_
Qnap 1685 ordered
 
StorNext is Quantum and is pretty much the most expensive as Bob mentioned.

I'm a reseller of Quantum on their tape side, and from my experience - they'd set you up to talk to a reseller and keep trying to get phones calls or meetings with you, even if you said your budget is very low. Many times I've tried to sell a $5000 a tape system and Quantum will get a hold of the customer to pitch some $80,000 disk system instead.
 
I ordered the Qnap TS-1685 as planned. Im sure it will fit my needs for along time to come. I have a question thoe. On Bve QNAP writes they will demonstrate QTS video-editing.
What is QTS video editing? I have not manage to find that online? Is it just a short for snap TS serie wich is suited for video...
 
this post has actually helped me alot! I had many similar questions to Joel, thanks Bob.
I was wondering what the CPU and ram requirements had to do with the system if you are strictly using the setup to edit off of. If I am only using it as storage and editing R3D files is there any purpose to getting the i7 and 16gb model of the tvs 871? or is the i5 or i3 model fine? this box coupled with the 10gbe add on will have me rippin! thanks for aall the hot tipsd again Bob. It;s hard to find definitive answers on all of this
 
I ordered the QNAP TS-1685 with the Intel Xeon D-1521 2.4 GHz (quad core) 16 GB ram. It should handle a few streams of 8k with easy from what I have understand (som the qnap should not be a bottle neck). It was long delivery time from the company I getting it from, but should arrive next week. I have 13 discs here for it as Bob recommended to fill it up at start and have one spare disc. Cant wait to get this up and running!
 
Hello and sorry for hijacking this thread:

I am trying to setup a small Network-Solution for a non-commercial studio - this is what I would love to do:

There are four Avid Mediacomposer (Windowsbased) in a Gigabit-Ethernet Network. At the moment we are only using local drives, but when moving from one avid to another there is a lot of wasted time copying / consolidating files from A to B and vice versa. The maximal resolution used is MXF DNxHD 185 (8Bit) / Full HD.

- is it possible to use a QNAP TVS 871 i7 16GB as shared RAID6 storage for the four windows based Mediacomposer; putting the Avid MediaFiles Folder on the QNAP only?
- is it possible to use the Gigabit Ethernet wiring or should I go for 10Gigabit?
- we don't want to work simultanously on the same project, just avoid transfer and copy times when one edit is allready in use
- would it be possible to add a MAC to this setup instead of one Windows Machine?
- a friend suggested using a HP-SE326 Server with enough Cache instead of buying a QNAP - what do you think?

Is this a way to go or is it necessary to get a NEXIS or EDITSHARE system?

best wishes and kind regards,
Martin
 
Yes, with raid 6 you have 6 drives left for data. Read speed is upto 6x the read speed of 1 drive, write speed is upto 8/6=1.33x of 1 drive. (Read/Write speeds of modern HD are 200 MB/s=1,6 Gb/s).
Yes, 1 gigabyte is 1000 mb/s (which is more than 4x185 mb/s=740 mb/s), 10 Gb/s cards are cheap these days ($ 110) so you can always upgrade later.
Yes as long as the mac has an ethernet port.
Look like you need better friends.

It's a system that can deliver what you want.

P.s have a look at Synology DiskStation DS1817+ I think they are a bit cheaper and easier to configure and they support the newer and saver Btrfs file system.
Or when you want to go bigger the DiskStation DS3617xs.
 
What's the wisdom on thick/thin/static storage provisioning for video storage use like this? Assuming we fill the NAS up with high-capacity drives from the start.
 
Nick Burridge said:
What's the wisdom on thick/thin/static storage provisioning for video storage use like this? Assuming we fill the NAS up with high-capacity drives from the start.
Click to expand...

Make sure they are not static.

DS1817+ can handle 8 + 5 + 5 Drives and you can migrate added drives on the fly.
(8-2) drives x 14 TB x 0,93 = 78 TB With DNxHD185 that gives you 944 hours of footage (and expansion room upto 200 TB, 2400 hour of footage).

DS3617xs can handle 12 + 12 + 12 Drives and you can migrate added drives on the fly.
(12-2) drives x 14 TB x 0,93 = 130 TB With DNxHD185 that gives you 1570 hours of footage (and expansion room upto 440 TB, 5350 hour of footage).

And when you run out of free space in a couple of years buy another one.

Don't know about the qnap's
 
Misha, thanks for your feedback. Do you have the DS1817+ in use yourself? Looks interesting, just wondering because the price is about 50% less than the QNAP.
How much RAM would you add?

best wishes and kind regards,
Martin
 
martinnoweck said:
Misha, thanks for your feedback. Do you have the DS1817+ in use yourself? Looks interesting, just wondering because the price is about 50% less than the QNAP.
How much RAM would you add?

best wishes and kind regards,
Martin
Click to expand...

Martin,

No, we use FreeNAS because we need a lot more storage, new system will be around 1000 TB (redundant).
As much RAM as possible (16 GB), the more RAM the faster the NAS (important with writes).

Make sure you use the Btfrs file system, Btrfs protects you also against bitrot and is self healing.

Misha
 
Hi Martin -
sorry for the delay. I disagree with some of the comments here.
You state that you are using AVID Media Composer. You DO NOT need an AVID Nexis or EditShare. There is a wonderful program from Indiestor called Mimiq. You load Mimiq on your AVID Media Composer workstation, and this fools Media Composer
into thinking that it's connected to an AVID ISIS or Nexis. You get full Bin Locking - just like on an AVID ISIS or Nexis (or Facilis Terrablock or Editshare). It works great. I believe Mimiq is 175 British Pounds per license.
As for the QNAP - I strongly advise you to create a single static volume, and not a thick volume (or thin volume). A video user wants to get the maxiumum performance (the fastest speed) from the RAID array, and you achieve this with a single static volume.
The reason thick volume is there is to create a storage pool, so that if you add an expansion chassis in the future, you can merge this into one large volume. I never ever do this because if the power supply goes back on the expansion unit, you lose all your data. I always create static volumes. Fastest speeds for 4K, 6K 8K editing, and you don't kill yourself in case of failure.
As for the BTRFS file system, Synology uses BTRFS and QNAP uses Linux EXT4. You will find that it takes a LONG TIME to rebuild a drive with BRTFS, and you will find that the Red Hat Linux committee no longer supports BTRFS.
Synology makes very nice products, but I have had better luck with QNAP. Either way, both are excellent solutions, and both are easier to use (it appears) than 45Drives, because of the requirement of FreeNAS as the user interface.
The DS1817+ from Synology only comes with 8 gig of RAM (you need at least 16 Gig of RAM to have usable system for 4 users) and no 10G card - the 10G card is an option. Without a 10G card and a 10G switch (and 10G interfaces for your computers)
you will not be doing 4K 6K and 8K editing - period. The DS1817+ also can only be expanded with two external 5 bay eSATA chassis, and you will not get the full bandwidth from eSATA on these external expander chassis.
This is why in the long run, for $2800, the QNAP is a better value. To look at an equivalent QNAP to the Synology DS1817+ - this would be the QNAP TVS-873e, and this model, while similarly priced to the Synology, also has no free 10G ports, and no built in expansion (it requires a card). You get what you pay for. While it's not my money, I feel that $2800 for a fantastic shared storage product that is fully expandable is a very reasonable price. Just my 2 cents.

Bob Zelin
 
Bob, thank you very much for your feedback!
Best wishes and kind regards,
Martin
 
Hi Bob,

Thank you for the concise write up and all the useful information. This post made up my mind to purchase a QNAP TS-1685 from Maxx Digital. I am really excited about it!!


Take care,


Julian


Bob Zelin said:
Hi Martin -
sorry for the delay. I disagree with some of the comments here.
You state that you are using AVID Media Composer. You DO NOT need an AVID Nexis or EditShare. There is a wonderful program from Indiestor called Mimiq. You load Mimiq on your AVID Media Composer workstation, and this fools Media Composer
into thinking that it's connected to an AVID ISIS or Nexis. You get full Bin Locking - just like on an AVID ISIS or Nexis (or Facilis Terrablock or Editshare). It works great. I believe Mimiq is 175 British Pounds per license.
As for the QNAP - I strongly advise you to create a single static volume, and not a thick volume (or thin volume). A video user wants to get the maxiumum performance (the fastest speed) from the RAID array, and you achieve this with a single static volume.
The reason thick volume is there is to create a storage pool, so that if you add an expansion chassis in the future, you can merge this into one large volume. I never ever do this because if the power supply goes back on the expansion unit, you lose all your data. I always create static volumes. Fastest speeds for 4K, 6K 8K editing, and you don't kill yourself in case of failure.
As for the BTRFS file system, Synology uses BTRFS and QNAP uses Linux EXT4. You will find that it takes a LONG TIME to rebuild a drive with BRTFS, and you will find that the Red Hat Linux committee no longer supports BTRFS.
Synology makes very nice products, but I have had better luck with QNAP. Either way, both are excellent solutions, and both are easier to use (it appears) than 45Drives, because of the requirement of FreeNAS as the user interface.
The DS1817+ from Synology only comes with 8 gig of RAM (you need at least 16 Gig of RAM to have usable system for 4 users) and no 10G card - the 10G card is an option. Without a 10G card and a 10G switch (and 10G interfaces for your computers)
you will not be doing 4K 6K and 8K editing - period. The DS1817+ also can only be expanded with two external 5 bay eSATA chassis, and you will not get the full bandwidth from eSATA on these external expander chassis.
This is why in the long run, for $2800, the QNAP is a better value. To look at an equivalent QNAP to the Synology DS1817+ - this would be the QNAP TVS-873e, and this model, while similarly priced to the Synology, also has no free 10G ports, and no built in expansion (it requires a card). You get what you pay for. While it's not my money, I feel that $2800 for a fantastic shared storage product that is fully expandable is a very reasonable price. Just my 2 cents.

Bob Zelin
Click to expand...
 
So I been running the Qnap 1685 for a short while and at first I was only hitting a 350 write read and 600 read. But thanks to Bob Zelin I have now a 900 ish read and write speed.
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I just got a 120TB QNAP and Bob set it up through Maxx Digital. We are getting 1000MB/s on every machine!!
 
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