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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Qnap raid system

Hi Joel -
you are a RED camera owner. You own expensive computers. The QNAP is the least expensive item of your equipment.
The TVS-1282T3 (if that is what you are buying) comes FOR FREE with a dual port 10GbaseT card, so you do not need to buy anything else. Please be advised that the wonderful TS-1685 is a 12 bay for the same money (you need 4 more drives) but also
comes with the free dual port 10GbaseT card. The QNAP is a network attached shared storage system. It is not converting anything for you. Your transcoding is done from programs like RedCine-X or Edit Ready, or Adobe Media Encoder or Apple Compressor.
The QNAP is not a render farm. It's a shared storage server.
You can get the TVS-1282T3 with 32 Gig or 16 gig of RAM. This will cost you about $3000 US. You can get the TS-1685 for the same money, which is a 12 bay. Both models have dual 10GbaseT ports, so you do not need a switch for your computers.
To get 10G speeds, you need a 10G Nic, or a 10G thunderbolt to Ethernet adaptor from Promise or Sonnet, unless you have the new iMac Pro which comes standard with a 10G port.
The TVS-871T will work fine for you. Again - it's just a couple of hundred dollars less. I have never seen a TVS-871T for less than $2600, and the TS-1685 is just under $3000, so for $400 more, you get a more powerful 12 bay.
All these models have built in dual port 10G ports.
These are all great products, and editing in 6K and 8K will be no issue for you. Of course, if you only have a 1G connection to the QNAP, you will not exceed 100 MB/sec, so your hidden cost is the 10G adaptor for your computer. And no, Thunderbolt
won't accomplish what you want. You need the 10G adaptor.

Bob Zelin
 
Bob Zelin said:
Hi Joel -
you are a RED camera owner. You own expensive computers. The QNAP is the least expensive item of your equipment.
The TVS-1282T3 (if that is what you are buying) comes FOR FREE with a dual port 10GbaseT card, so you do not need to buy anything else. Please be advised that the wonderful TS-1685 is a 12 bay for the same money (you need 4 more drives) but also
comes with the free dual port 10GbaseT card. The QNAP is a network attached shared storage system. It is not converting anything for you. Your transcoding is done from programs like RedCine-X or Edit Ready, or Adobe Media Encoder or Apple Compressor.
The QNAP is not a render farm. It's a shared storage server.
You can get the TVS-1282T3 with 32 Gig or 16 gig of RAM. This will cost you about $3000 US. You can get the TS-1685 for the same money, which is a 12 bay. Both models have dual 10GbaseT ports, so you do not need a switch for your computers.
To get 10G speeds, you need a 10G Nic, or a 10G thunderbolt to Ethernet adaptor from Promise or Sonnet, unless you have the new iMac Pro which comes standard with a 10G port.
The TVS-871T will work fine for you. Again - it's just a couple of hundred dollars less. I have never seen a TVS-871T for less than $2600, and the TS-1685 is just under $3000, so for $400 more, you get a more powerful 12 bay.
All these models have built in dual port 10G ports.
These are all great products, and editing in 6K and 8K will be no issue for you. Of course, if you only have a 1G connection to the QNAP, you will not exceed 100 MB/sec, so your hidden cost is the 10G adaptor for your computer. And no, Thunderbolt
won't accomplish what you want. You need the 10G adaptor.

Bob Zelin
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean about thunderbolt. The Thunderbolt2 ports on the 1282T and the Thunderbolt3 ports on the 1282T3 are both the fastest interface to use to access the NAS, and works well on both OSX and Windows. We regularly pull 2500 MB/s or more off a 1282T3 over thunderbolt3 to both OS’s.
 
Bob Zelin said:
Hi Joel -
you are a RED camera owner. You own expensive computers. The QNAP is the least expensive item of your equipment.
The TVS-1282T3 (if that is what you are buying) comes FOR FREE with a dual port 10GbaseT card, so you do not need to buy anything else. Please be advised that the wonderful TS-1685 is a 12 bay for the same money (you need 4 more drives) but also
comes with the free dual port 10GbaseT card. The QNAP is a network attached shared storage system. It is not converting anything for you. Your transcoding is done from programs like RedCine-X or Edit Ready, or Adobe Media Encoder or Apple Compressor.
The QNAP is not a render farm. It's a shared storage server.
You can get the TVS-1282T3 with 32 Gig or 16 gig of RAM. This will cost you about $3000 US. You can get the TS-1685 for the same money, which is a 12 bay. Both models have dual 10GbaseT ports, so you do not need a switch for your computers.
To get 10G speeds, you need a 10G Nic, or a 10G thunderbolt to Ethernet adaptor from Promise or Sonnet, unless you have the new iMac Pro which comes standard with a 10G port.
The TVS-871T will work fine for you. Again - it's just a couple of hundred dollars less. I have never seen a TVS-871T for less than $2600, and the TS-1685 is just under $3000, so for $400 more, you get a more powerful 12 bay.
All these models have built in dual port 10G ports.
These are all great products, and editing in 6K and 8K will be no issue for you. Of course, if you only have a 1G connection to the QNAP, you will not exceed 100 MB/sec, so your hidden cost is the 10G adaptor for your computer. And no, Thunderbolt
won't accomplish what you want. You need the 10G adaptor.

Bob Zelin
Click to expand...


Great, now I know for fact that a nas cant be used for any rendering. Will have a short look at what I could accomplish with an server instead off an nas before hitting the trigger.
I do know that the TVS-1282T3 has 2 10gbe cards and was asking about the cards to put in my Supermicro server to communicate with the nas over 10gbe. Incase theres a 10gbe card that is more recommended.

Thanks for shedding some light on this matter BoB.
 
Joel Arvidsson said:
Great, now I know for fact that a nas cant be used for any rendering. Will have a short look at what I could accomplish with an server instead off an nas before hitting the trigger.
I do know that the TVS-1282T3 has 2 10gbe cards and was asking about the cards to put in my Supermicro server to communicate with the nas over 10gbe. Incase theres a 10gbe card that is more recommended.

Thanks for shedding some light on this matter BoB.
Click to expand...

TVS-1282T3 has 3 PCI-e slots. It ships with dual port Thunderbolt 3 cards in 2 of them, and a dual-port 10GbE NIC in the other. It also has 4 1GbE ports on the motherboard.

https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/tvs-1282t3/specs/hardware

Depending on which Supermicro server you have, it may support Thunderbolt. SM currently ships a Thunderbolt 2 card that works well. They are currently developing Thunderbolt 3 support.

If you want to go 10GbE, there isn't a big difference between the major players. Intel X550 is the standard right now. Atto also makes decent cards but they are pricy and in my experience don't perform any better.
 
Since im going to go with the 10gbe instead of thunderbolt 3, is there anything that better with the TVS-1282T3 vs TS-1685 for editing, grading, vfx, .......plex server.
Is there any cons with the TS-1685?

Also, Thanks DJ Meyer for your intel x550 tip.
 
Joel Arvidsson said:
Since im going to go with the 10gbe instead of thunderbolt 3, is there anything that better with the TVS-1282T3 vs TS-1685 for editing, grading, vfx, .......plex server.
Is there any cons with the TS-1685?

Also, Thanks DJ Meyer for your intel x550 tip.
Click to expand...

Only "con" with the 1685 compared to the 1282T3 is that it doesn't have thunderbolt, nor can it be retrofitted with thunderbolt. If that is not important to you, then go with the 1685.
 
To answer your question Joel -
this weeks "hot" chip is the Aquantia 107. This is the 10G chip that is appearing in the new iMac Pro (not an Intel X550). You can now purchase an ASUS 10G NIC, that has both Windows and Linux drivers (no Mac drivers - I guess Apple has that locked up) - and the ASUS 10G NIC is selling for about $100 US, which is the cheapest 10G PCIe card I have ever seen. I have installed these in Win 10 machines, and you get about 900 - 1000 MB/sec R/W performance. Aquantia has stated at CES 2018 that both Promise and Cal Digit will have thunderbolt 3 to 10G adaptors using this exact chip as well.

And DJ - as for your 2500 MB/sec performance - no matter what IPerf shows, you can't get 8 SATA drives to perform at 2500 MB/sec, no matter what you do. So that is theoretical bandwidth. And you are using Thunderbolt bridging to accomplish this. If you can get 1100 MB/sec total bandwidth from 8 7200 RPM SATA drives (no matter what brand shared storage you are using) - you are lucky.

Bob Zelin
 
Bob Zelin said:
.

And DJ - as for your 2500 MB/sec performance - no matter what IPerf shows, you can't get 8 SATA drives to perform at 2500 MB/sec, no matter what you do. So that is theoretical bandwidth. And you are using Thunderbolt bridging to accomplish this. If you can get 1100 MB/sec total bandwidth from 8 7200 RPM SATA drives (no matter what brand shared storage you are using) - you are lucky.

Bob Zelin
Click to expand...

Whatever you say, Bob. ;)
 
Wich cpu would you choose on a 1685?
 
Bob Zelin said:
To answer your question Joel -
this weeks "hot" chip is the Aquantia 107. This is the 10G chip that is appearing in the new iMac Pro (not an Intel X550). You can now purchase an ASUS 10G NIC, that has both Windows and Linux drivers (no Mac drivers - I guess Apple has that locked up) - and the ASUS 10G NIC is selling for about $100 US, which is the cheapest 10G PCIe card I have ever seen. I have installed these in Win 10 machines, and you get about 900 - 1000 MB/sec R/W performance. Aquantia has stated at CES 2018 that both Promise and Cal Digit will have thunderbolt 3 to 10G adaptors using this exact chip as well.

Bob Zelin
Click to expand...


Is this the right card ASUS NIC PCIe Asus 10G XG-C100C I like to order it now so just checking. Or should it be the ROG Areion 10G version of it?
Edit: the Rog Areion is the same as the xg-c100c but have better cooling and longer warranty. But I don't know if the ROG Areion is any faster. I might be little since I saw a test with the xg-c100c and it looked like it termo throttled for a while and drop the transfer speed.

In the test I viewed the intel still beat the Asus in speed. So perhaps I should go intel to be safe.
865MB/s intel X550
616MB/s Asus xg-c100c



Also there is 10/25/40 GBE INTEL® ETHERNET NETWORK ADAPTERS. Shouldn´t it be better with a 40gbe card. I think I read some where that the 1685 did support 40bg Nic.
 
Hi Joel -
I saw the same review on the ASUS XG-C100C that you did, where it showed 200 MB/sec slower than the Intel X550. My client needed a cheap 10G card for his ASUS motherboard (Win 10) and we just ordered it. Price was more important
than the increase in speed. when we installed the card, we got 1000 MB/sec R/W. We were shocked. I have never tested or seen the ROG Areion version of this card. As for 40G ethernet - no. It's too fast - it will saturate your SATA drives.
Unless you have a 100% SSD system, there is no reason to install a 40G card - 2200 MB/sec to the client will be faster than 8 or 12 SATA drives can go.

Bob Zelin
 
Ok, last question before ordering a Qnap on Monday. Im leaning strongly towards 1685 over the 1282T3 since most here seams more keen on using 10g over thunderbolt. For me personal it sound great since two meters thunderbolt really kills most options to place the qnap where you want. Also my main workstation (Supermicro) does not support thunderbolt (thinking on going back to Mac in future thoe). So my last question is.

What would be beneficial with the 1282T3 and thunderbolt 3.


1282T3 pros (those I can come up with)
Ready to connect to 4 computers using thunderbolt 3.
Ready to connect to connect to two computers using 10gbe.
Hdmi ports to connect the TVS-1282T3 to a HDTV or A/V receiver and use the media player to enjoy rich media content and 4K videos



Pros with 1685
Support of 12 3.5 disc
Ready to connect two computers using 10gbe and have and extra pcie slot to put in another 10gbe cards for connecting to more computers.

I guess the reason I have a little hard do decide is since I missed a thunderbolt port my Supermicro workstation while I was looking at external storage. But im sure 10g will be fine.


Also I like to thank Bob Zelin and DJ Meyer for taking your time and giving me valuable inputs. Thanks!!!
 
The real advantage of Thunderbolt is that you can get much higher performance from it when serving one, maybe two connected computers. 10G is going to be the more convenient or robust connection and you can easily add a 10G port to any system with a PCIe slot or TB port. Long cable runs are a huge deal here. There are longer (optical) TB3 cables coming this year, but we don’t know when.

Doubtful that you’ll actually use the integrated HDMI port unless you’re desperate for a 4K media player of sorts. And it’s a crappy one that only supports HMDI 1.4, so 4K up to 30Hz.
 
Joel Arvidsson said:
Ok, last question before ordering a Qnap on Monday. Im leaning strongly towards 1685 over the 1282T3 since most here seams more keen on using 10g over thunderbolt. For me personal it sound great since two meters thunderbolt really kills most options to place the qnap where you want. Also my main workstation (Supermicro) does not support thunderbolt (thinking on going back to Mac in future thoe). So my last question is.

What would be beneficial with the 1282T3 and thunderbolt 3.


1282T3 pros (those I can come up with)
Ready to connect to 4 computers using thunderbolt 3.
Ready to connect to connect to two computers using 10gbe.
Hdmi ports to connect the TVS-1282T3 to a HDTV or A/V receiver and use the media player to enjoy rich media content and 4K videos



Pros with 1685
Support of 12 3.5 disc
Ready to connect two computers using 10gbe and have and extra pcie slot to put in another 10gbe cards for connecting to more computers.

I guess the reason I have a little hard do decide is since I missed a thunderbolt port my Supermicro workstation while I was looking at external storage. But im sure 10g will be fine.


Also I like to thank Bob Zelin and DJ Meyer for taking your time and giving me valuable inputs. Thanks!!!
Click to expand...

I'd go with the 1282T3 and have the option of either TB3 or 10GbE.

To be honest, the USB-C style connection that TB3 runs over isn't very secure. There's some potentials for disconnects (even a few mm out is good to ruin your day). So if you're mission critical and your data's important, I'd probably rock the more secure 10GbE connection until necessary.
 
Last edited:
Well, it's my opinion to go with the TS-1685. The price value is amazing. Let me assure you, your first concern is running of of storage, not using thunderbolt or needing the extra speed. 800 MB/sec will do 8K with it's eyes closed, so this will not be an issue for you. But saving money, and getting the most storage you can for as little money as you can will be an issue (if you are successful). The TS-1685 has 12 bays (120 TB with 10TB drives), free dual 10G ports.
Win and Linux PC's can get 10G cards for $99, and new "pro mac's) will all have 10G cards built in (like the iMac Pro, and pending future Mac Pro's). And for a "cheaper" Thunderbolt 3 MacBook Pro, or iMac, the Sonnet SanLink3 is $299, and I believe the Akitio is even cheaper. And you get to use a cheap Cat 6 cable, instead of a 2 meter thunderbolt 3 cable. At this moment (February 2018) - it's a great value. but the 1282T3 is a great box as well. Let me know if you need help with the setup.

Bob Zelin
 
Just ordered the TS-1685. As much as I wanted to get exited reading 1600MB/sec I cant stand noisy raids. So long cable is a must, plus 8k sucks up drive space quite rapidly, so the 4 extra 3.5" slots is needed. Im so glad there is so much great people everyday on this forum! Thanks for all visdom and inputs. Will have a look at the Sonnet SanLink3 and Akitio later.

So anybody here now alot about archive to lto8? kidding no budget for that in a while. But curios how you would connect an LTO to the Qnap or if you have to have a Mac/pc in-between.
 
Joel -
you are not going to use Thunderbolt 3, and you are not going to get 1600 MB/sec. This is the total bandwidth of the RAID array, not the connection to your client. Your speed will vary depending on which Mac, and which thunderbolt to 10G adaptor you purchase. If you have an iMac Pro with the built in 10G port, you will get about 900 MB/sec read/write. Sonnet Twin 10G and Promise SanLink2 is about 800 MB/sec. Promise SanLink3 with thunderbolt 3 Mac is 350 MB/sec write, and 1000 MB/sec read. PC's with modern 10G cards are about 1000 MB/sec Read/Write. If you go to www.red.com/tools - and click on Recording time, you will see than 8K for the Monstro requires under 200 MB/sec, so you will be fine.
If you have a 1G connection, you are going to get 100 MB/sec - that's it. There is no thunderbolt connection, and even if there was, you would have problems with it with real life editing.
I can answer any questions you want on LTO - contact my email. There is no connection from the QNAP to the LTO directly. This is done via your Mac (via Thunderbolt with products from MLogic and MagStor) or with a PCIe miniSAS card from ATTO or Highpoint in a Win PC or old Mac Pro.

Bob Zelin
 
I decided to order the hard drives from another company than the qnap supplier due to their higher prices (the qnap was ok prices). Found a few places here selling the 8 and 10 tb 10TB HGST NAS drives. I wonder if host is suggested to be used in raids with 12 drives? I also checked wd red drives and they should be good up to 8 disc raids and wd gold should be used for 12 drives in a raid.
I also checked the seagate iron wolf and you could use the non pro version in raids up to 8 disk and then the pro version for 12 discs (as recommendations).

Bob did you say you are using the Hgst Deskstar NAS 10tb drive in your TS-1685 or wd red drives (the red drives as I understand is recommended for up to 8 discs)

And for the rest, I wonder what discs are you using in your raid systems and how many drives it got.
 
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