Proper HDR workflow

[jake blackstone]

Yes, but the problem is that even without the license, the basic tone mapping should work and when putting it to 100 nits, it should not react like in the images I showed. All other tone mappings work as they should, but 100 nits (rec709) just expands everything in the scopes to oblivion and the footage looks totally wrong. This is the same result as I get when trying to export a H265 with proper HDR export settings. So either I have some settings wrong or there's a serious bug in version 16.2 or whatever the latest update is.

From a quick glance at 100 nits image I can see, that you haven't performed the analysis- it is not greyed out. After running it on the single shot or whole timeline, your waveform will show correct measurements on a 100 nits scale. This has nothing to do with the license. In the past I have done DolbyVision HDR test grade with Red material and after running 100 nits tone mapping analysis on all images in the timeline, it looked completely normal on a standard Rec-709 monitor even though everything is processed and graded in PQ 2084/P3 for DolbyVision project. Unless you knew it, it is impossible to tell if it's standard Rec-709 project or DolbyVision 1000 nits ST2084/P3D65 tone mapped to 100 nits for Rec-709.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

From a quick glance at 100 nits image I can see, that you haven't performed the analysis- it is not greyed out. After running it on the single shot or whole timeline, your waveform will show correct measurements on a 100 nits scale. This has nothing to do with the license. In the past I have done DolbyVision HDR test grade with Red material and after running 100 nits tone mapping analysis on all images in the timeline, it looked completely normal on a standard Rec-709 monitor even though everything is processed and graded in PQ 2084/P3 for DolbyVision project. Unless you knew it, it is impossible to tell if it's standard Rec-709 project or DolbyVision 1000 nits ST2084/P3D65 tone mapped to 100 nits for Rec-709.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if I analyze or not, the behaviour is the same. The problem is a two-parter. First there's this with the 100 nits tone mapping not behaving correctly (all other tone mapping options behave as expected), while the second problem is the worst part; that I can't export HDR H265 files without them looking the same as in that picture. Settings all over and in export are set according to the Dolby crash course videos you linked to before. So still a mystery why Resolve behaves like this for me.

 

[rand thompson]

Christoffer,

I think this problem will either be in the Project settings and/or the Export settings and Monitor setup.


Here's the settings from the videos to use either BT2020 or P3 - DCI and Full Range and 6500 Temp.with your Mastering Monitor. Also make sure the Output Color Space corresponds to the same Mastering Setup.

For SD monitor, Rec709/ BT1886 ( Gamma 2.4 ) Full Range 6500 Temp.

 

[rand thompson]

Here are the H.265 settings I used. I placed the file on a Thumbdrive, connected it to a Samsung SmartTV that's HDR compatible and it both Tagged it as HDR and in ST.2084. It looked like I would have expected it to look as well.

Edit:

This is the screengrab without the "FULL RANGE" selelected. Be sure to change from "AUTO" to "FULL"

 

[jake blackstone]

Here are the H.265 settings I used. I placed the file on a Thumbdrive, connected it to a Samsung SmartTV that's HDR compatible and it both Tagged it as HDR and in ST.2084. It looked like I would have expected it to look as well.

Edit:

This is the screengrab without the "FULL RANGE" selelected. Be sure to change from "AUTO" to "FULL"

unless it changed, home TVs are Quad HD resolution and not DCI, so your image will get cut off as exported.

 

[rand thompson]

Jake,

So 2560×1440 would be the best setting? I did notice a very slightly squeezed in image. Thanks for the info! I'll try some new settings then.

 

[jake blackstone]

Jake,

So 2560×1440 would be the best setting? I did notice a very slightly squeezed in image. Thanks for the info! I'll try some new settings then.

No, Quad HD resolution is 3840x2160

 

[rand thompson]

No, Quad HD resolution is 3840x2160

This is what I was going by. But I get what you were saying.

 

[jake blackstone]

This is what I was going by. But I get what you were saying.

I have no idea where you got this from, but it's pretty much outdated and Quad HD definition is plain wrong. HD term is pretty meaningless, it can be almost anything up to 1920x1080, Quad HD means 4 times 1920x1080 and 4k (DCI) means 4094x2160.

 

[rand thompson]

Jake,

When you said Quad HD, I really hadn't heard that terminology in a while so I looked it up and that was what kept coming up. But Hey, I got it from a source on the internet so........But I understand what you mean now.

 

[jake blackstone]

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if I analyze or not, the behaviour is the same. The problem is a two-parter. First there's this with the 100 nits tone mapping not behaving correctly (all other tone mapping options behave as expected), while the second problem is the worst part; that I can't export HDR H265 files without them looking the same as in that picture. Settings all over and in export are set according to the Dolby crash course videos you linked to before. So still a mystery why Resolve behaves like this for me.

Here are the frame grabs of my DolbyVision HDR test project done at 1000 nits and tone mapped to BT1886 with H265 QT render shown next to the tone mapped GUI image. They match and everything works correctly. I haven't done 1000nits ST2084/PeD65 render as I don't have an appropriate HDR monitor, but I don't see any problems with doing HDR project and rendering H265.

[/url][/IMG]

[/url] [/IMG]

 

[rand thompson]

Jake,


I was using the RWG/LOG3G10 For Both Input And Timeline. In the 5th Dolby Vision about halfway through, They say you could use the files own Color Space, and not be restricted to the P3 D65, ST.2084. As long as you restrict the "Limit The Output Gamut" to P3-D65. I am assuming you have a Higher than L-1 metadata license for those "Trim" parameters to be active also.

I think I will try your settings. Thanks!!

 

[rand thompson]

Here Are the Settings I used. And it looked the same on my HDR TV as well.

I had to do a Full Screen Screen grab to get this image. I couldn't export the image out

 

[jake blackstone]

Jake,


I was using the RWG/LOG3G10 For Both Input And Timeline. In the 5th Dolby Vision about halfway through, They say you could use the files own Color Space, and not be restricted to the P3 D65, ST.2084. As long as you restrict the "Limit The Output Gamut" to P3-D65. I am assuming you have a Higher than L-1 metadata license for those "Trim" parameters to be active also.

I think I will try your settings. Thanks!!

There is nothing wrong with using RWG/LOG3G10 settings with Red material for the timeline. I prefer to use something more common like BT2020 or D65P3, because if you have mixed timeline sources, RWG/LOG3G10 choice is less than ideal. P3 or BT2020 are big enough to be able to accommodate pretty much any sources and deliverables. This way, regardless of the source it is always the same and I don't have to keep changing it, but that's my choice...

 

[rand thompson]

There is nothing wrong with using RWG/LOG3G10 settings with Red material for the timeline. I prefer to use something more common like BT2020 or D65P3, because if you have mixed timeline sources, RWG/LOG3G10 choice is less than ideal. P3 or BT2020 are big enough to be able to accommodate pretty much any sources and deliverables. This way, regardless of the source it is always the same and I don't have to keep changing it, but that's my choice...

Yeah,

I was trying the RWG/LOG3G10 out to see how it would work. I didn't see really any difference. So, as you stated, P3-D65 will probably be best.


I also ran another test this time with ("1000Nits P3,D65 ST.2084 Full) and it looked different to my previous post. However, when I chose "DOLBY VISION" under "TONE MAPPING", it had a default "100nit BT.709 BT.1886 Full" greyed out. At the beginning of the Export to H.265, it looked the same as in the DOLBY VISION palette. But when the export started it transformed to like the 100nit Rec709 image from my previous post. When it was finished, it reverted back to the way it looked in the DOLBY VISION palette again.

When I played the 100nit 709 BT1886 full range video and the 1000Nits P3,D65 ST.2084 Full video on the Tv, they looked exactly the same.

 

[jake blackstone]

Yeah,

I was trying the RWG/LOG3G10 out to see how it would work. I didn't see really any difference. So, as you stated, P3-D65 will probably be best.


I also ran another test this time with ("1000Nits P3,D65 ST.2084 Full) and it looked different to my previous post. However, when I chose "DOLBY VISION" under "TONE MAPPING", it had a default "100nit BT.709 BT.1886 Full" greyed out. At the beginning of the Export to H.265, it looked the same as in the DOLBY VISION palette. But when the export started it transformed to like the 100nit Rec709 image from my previous post. When it was finished, it reverted back to the way it looked in the DOLBY VISION palette again.

When I played the 100nit 709 BT1886 full range video and the 1000Nits P3,D65 ST.2084 Full video on the Tv, they looked exactly the same.

Unless your mastering monitor is 4000 nits, there is a zero need for 1000 nits tone mapping. You always tone map down, so 1000 nits choice doesn't make sense. You need to select proper mastering display brightness in DolbyVision preferences (1000 nits) then you should see 100 nits available for tone mapping. You don't need license for that. Only for trim controls.

 

[rand thompson]

Unless your mastering monitor is 4000 nits, there is a zero need for 1000 nits tone mapping. You always tone map down, so 1000 nits choice doesn't make sense. You need to select proper mastering display brightness in DolbyVision preferences (1000 nits) then you should see 100 nits available for tone mapping. You don't need license for that. Only for trim controls.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I was doing so experimenting to test out a theory I had. I found the solution to my problem. Thanks again!

 

[rand thompson]

For Dolby Vision Master Files use either a TIFF Sequence or an IMF file


TIFF

Then Go to the "EDIT" Page, then under "FILE", "Export AAF,XML.." to export the XML Metadata version of DOLBY VISION you will need to go along with the "TIFF" Sequence above to be be combined later.

IMF

This combines the image sequence and the XML Metadata file into one file. Use Main Level 6 Sub Level 3 for a 4K UHD video with a frame rate lower than 30 frames per second. And use Main Level 7 Sub Level 4 for a 4K UHD video with a frame rate higher than 30 frames per second. Make sure "NONE" is chosen for DOLBY VISION "Tone Mapping"

Higher than 30FPS

According to Netflix Page 5 of the Netflix Originals Delivery Specifications v3.3

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B37xotBvlV3Qc1E4VW5sMzNwcmc/view


The Netflix IMF Workflow
https://netflixtechblog.com/the-netflix-imf-workflow-f45dd72ed700

 

[rand thompson]

The ACEScct HDR workflow, atleast to me, seems to give a more accurate DOLBY VISION RWG/LOG3G10 color Analysis for the "100nit, BT.709, BT1886 Full" than the "Color Managed" workflow.


"Color Managed" HDR

"ACEScct HDR"

Full Screen, Screen Grab of correction

 

[Christoffer Glans]

So I tried the new Resolve 17 beta and set the HDR settings to Blackmagics own HDR system. But it behaves just like before.

Is Resolve incapable of showing a HDR image in the preview window? Is it locked to only showing HDR out? I also set everything to 2000 nits, but the scopes show that when pushing the gain it ends up at 900 nits maximum.