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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Pro Res Suggestions

Hypothetically speaking, what if
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Hence if .
With out if's (from my experience) --- Every time production shooting raw be it arri or red there is some sort of dailes mostly prores. In scripted television one production company can make two, three or more series at a time. The same editorial team working with all materials , it can be 10 - 20 revisions or more of their work . On many occasions it never goes back to raw.
Seen some production still shooting 2K raw cropped like 8-10 years ago. And no, they are not going to change thier workflow, that how they cut corners.
Why not to give them possibility to have a minimal best ?
 
Alex Stolpakov said:
Hence if .
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Interesting: RED+ProRes RAW makes for "light on your computer":

Codec light on a computer and holding strong in post ...
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, here

but if it's "ProRes RAW+RED", suddenly it's full of "ifs":

If it plays in real time on average computer . Then yes .
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, here?!

With out if's (from my experience) --- Every time production shooting raw be it arri or red there is some sort of dailes mostly prores. In scripted television one production company can make two, three or more series at a time. The same editorial team working with all materials , it can be 10 - 20 revisions or more of their work . On many occasions it never goes back to raw.
Seen some production still shooting 2K raw cropped like 8-10 years ago. And no, they are not going to change thier workflow, that how they cut corners.
Why not to give them possibility to have a minimal best ?
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Just like that? For free?
 
Just like that? For free?
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If you can buy, upgrade or rent camera for free please do , not many have that option.
So no prores or yes for them in camera and if yes what kind?
 
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Alex Stolpakov said:
If you can buy, upgrade or rent camera for free please do , not many have that option.
So no prores or yes for them in camera and if yes what kind?
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Alex, how exactly do you buy or rent a camera for free? "Buy for free", that's an oxymoron!
You even can't upgrade it for free - it will at least cost you work, yours or somebody else's. :smile5:
 
Why not to give them possibility to have a minimal best ?
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Just like that? For free?
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Šabović Adis;1813175 said:
Alex, how exactly do you buy or rent a camera for free? "Buy for free", that's an oxymoron!
You even can't upgrade it for free - it will at least cost you work, yours or somebody else's. :smile5:
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Exactly those people are not some kind of bastards , they are paying customers. And thanks to them for the possibility to make moving pictures... Just to have choice of different best (minimal or not) cameras is good. Let say they ask for prores, no transcoding . DP want's the 'best' camera that shoots 'best' prores . What camera to take ?
Nothing is free except advice .
 
Alex Stolpakov said:
Exactly those people are not some kind of bastards , they are paying customers.
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What paying customers? Who's gonna pay RED to implement ProRes RAW? You? Some other individual, in person? Who?


And thanks to them for the possibility to make moving pictures... Just to have choice of different best (minimal or not) cameras is good. Let say they ask for prores, no transcoding .
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Choice, per se, is nonsense! Only the best is good enough, the rest don't even need to exist. Right now, that's RED&R3D.

DP want's the 'best' camera that shoots 'best' prores . What camera to take ?
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Nobody's stopping them to make whatever cameras they like and then use it! Similarly, my kid too wants "best this and best that", and I always say: go, get it, tiger!

Nothing is free except advice .
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Really? :smile5:
 
Like father , like son...
Love to see explaining all this to production companies, DPs when they ask why camera r not camera a ...
When we need a flight , we need to to start building a plane or just buy a ticket.
 
Alex Stolpakov said:
Like father , like son...
Love to see explaining all this to production companies, DPs when they ask why camera r not camera a ...
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Just tell them this: pay!
Instantly they'll know you mean business.

When we need a flight , we need to to start building a plane or just buy a ticket.
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Of course!
Not expecting the plane to build itself, or that it rains tickets, are you?
 
Expecting price of ticket to pay for some luggage.
And no . no magic unicorns.
 
Šabović Adis;1812481 said:
VV4Kdatafinal.jpg


ProRes 4444 @4K, 24fps, is 1.1 Gb/s (140.8 MB/s), or 1.375 Gb/s (176 MB/s) @30fps.
ProRes 4444 XQ @4K, 24fps, is 1.7 Gb/s (217.6 MB/s), or 2.125 Gb/s (272 MB/s) @30fps.
RED's MiniMag maxes out at 300 MB/s.

I think MiniMags are designed primarily with R3Ds in mind, which is, if it's me you ask, a killer codec!
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The data rate chart does not appear to be accurate. Just for starters, RED 4K FF (6:1) is listed at 151 Mb/s - 150 MB/s perhaps, but not 150 Mb/s (capital B is Bytes, lower case b is bits, there are 8 bits in a Byte). Šabović has both the bit and Byte rate properly noted in his ProRes comparison, it's the chart I question.

Cheers - #19
 
Hm...now that you've brought that up:
RED @4K FF (4096x2160 ?), 24fps, 16 bit, 6:1 comp. gives 540 Mb/s (67.5 MB/s). You're right, Blair, thanks!

@Alex
What about it? Wanna install ProRes RAW in your DSMC, do 60 fps at 8K Full Format (8192 × 4320)?
Go, get it, tiger! :smile5:
 
Phil Holland said:
http://phfx.com/tools/framesToDataRate/framesToDataRate.cgi?resX=&resY=&resolution=8192x4320&REDresolution=&REDresolutionB=8K-FF-8192x4320&REDCODERAWCR=5&fps=24&hours=2&minutes=&intermediateCodec=DCI8K

My little framesToDataRate tool is pretty of useful for this. Here's DCI 8K 8192x4320 across multiple codecs including REDCODE RAW, ProRes, ProRes Raw, DNxHR, and uncompressed. Actually there's two more I should add in there.

Maybe a late night addition.
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Cineform would be nice since they went opensource

8/10/16-bit YUV 4:2:2 compressed as 10-bit, progressive or interlace
8/10/16-bit RGB 4:4:4 compressed at 12-bit progressive
8/16-bit RGBA 4:4:4:4 compressed at 12-bit progressive
12/16-bit CFA Bayer RAW, log encoded and compressed at 12-bit progressive
Dual channel stereoscopic/3D in any of the above.

Compression ratio: between 10:1 and 4:1 are typical, greater ranges are possible.

It's light on computer resources, opensource and has one of the best quality to compression ratio's (close to R3D).

I really hope this is picked up better by the (camera and NLE) industry.

On the other hand, when you can afford a Monstro (or two) you can also opt. for the next gen. cpu's like TR2 or its intel equivalent that will decode R3D's and de-bayer(GPU's) like it isn't there.
For the less fortunate Cineform would be nice.
 
Misha Engel said:
When upscaled ProRes 4k 4444 from an Alexa is good enough Full-HD 1080p and DCI-2k are good enough.

In a perfect world with a bayer sensor you will need atleast twice the amount of pixels to convert it to a RGB matrix.
With UHD this means (3840 x sqrt(2)) x (2160 x sqrt(2)) = 5431 x 3055 bayer pixels.
Since we don't live in a perfect world (OLPF, Lens, etc...) it will be more something like (3840x1.5) x (2160x1.5) = 5760 x 3240 bayer pixels.

At the moment the only ARRI camera that can do this doesn't have ProRes.

I wonder if there are already camera's that can do this...
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The "naive demosaic" factor is 1/root(2) = ~71%, but better demosaics can achieve ~80% and that is measured on real-world data thus taking into account lens and OLPF.

Graeme
 
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