Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Point of weapon? Full Frame?

Michael Lindsay said:
The problem with higher frame rates is that it is harder than people think so I am not expecting a miracle just a healthy bump..

Just my guess...
Click to expand...

Me thinks the same.
And it would have to be really healthy for me to move swiftly from my current setups.
 
Here a question I've yet to hear an answer about:

Will we need to be at NAB to get first dibs on the upgrade? Or am I ok at my computer? I already have epic dragon.
 
Pretty sure higher resolution and a full frame sensor are things that won't happen because the sensor is still the same (Dragon). I don't think they are making changes to the sensor (unless I missed something).
(I also really hope they don't continue to increase the format size, or at least always have the option to stay near S35 without cropping into the sensor or else all the great glass out there becomes even less usable).
 
Daniel Soderberg said:
Pretty sure higher resolution and a full frame sensor are things that won't happen because the sensor is still the same (Dragon). I don't think they are making changes to the sensor (unless I missed something).
(I also really hope they don't continue to increase the format size, or at least always have the option to stay near S35 without cropping into the sensor or else all the great glass out there becomes even less usable).
Click to expand...

Always kills me when I read stuff like that. Red is a mult-format system. All, and I mean all, of your Super 35mm glass covers 5K on Dragon. That's the format and the format nicely finishes out to 4K. The extra resolution and format size up to 6K is there if you want to "explore" it. Just because 6K is there doesn't mean it negates the usefulness or beauty found in the S35 glass and format.
 
Phil Holland said:
Always kills me when I read stuff like that. Red is a mult-format system. All, and I mean all, of your Super 35mm glass covers 5K on Dragon. That's the format and the format nicely finishes out to 4K. The extra resolution and format size up to 6K is there if you want to "explore" it. Just because 6K is there doesn't mean it negates the usefulness or beauty found in the S35 glass and format.
Click to expand...

True that. And I love having the look-around when shooting 5K.
 
I like the options and the fact RED keeps moving forward. Everyone has tried to copy them and has to make statements about the Red Epic etc. We have been waiting for RED to arrive. I compared some 35mm footage to the RED Epic and it was dead on the look even in sun light, to see this has blown my mind because the what if has happened! The best part is RED has pushed pass the film look to give us the great color science but my cherry on top will be the look of a film that blew me away by its coloring James Bond Casino Royal. "Are we there Yet?"
 
We don't know if the upgrade is a swap of electronics or a camera swap. If the later is the case, they could be using a larger chunk of the Dragon sensor wafer. ;)
 
Mike Nagel said:
size of the MX xhip was exactly the same on R1 MX and Epic - R1 MX uses 4.5K max, while Epic uses the full 5K available...

internal bandwidth and boards of the R1 MX couldn't handle more data (as in: more pixel and lower compression), but u got the look around area...

Epic Dragon already uses the full physical size of the Dragon sensor.
Click to expand...

i don't see where it says there will be a dragon sensor in there. I think the new sensor or name is weapon. I have not once seen the term weapon dragon or dragon associated with weapon.

Upgrade. Everyone is assuming it's a body only upgrade, but I'm not sure that is the case. It might be one of those, giant leaps forward.

And just to qualify. I know nothing. I've seen nothing and I have spoken to no one. I'm just sitting here on the other side of the world, a bit giddy.

Battistella
 
I'm grounded for right now...I hope the weapon works out for you guys and I will stay up dated on reduser. I'm not jumping until i make ends meet with this MX camera
 
David Battistella said:
i don't see where it says there will be a dragon sensor in there. I think the new sensor or name is weapon. I have not once seen the term weapon dragon or dragon associated with weapon.

Upgrade. Everyone is assuming it's a body only upgrade, but I'm not sure that is the case. It might be one of those, giant leaps forward.

And just to qualify. I know nothing. I've seen nothing and I have spoken to no one. I'm just sitting here on the other side of the world, a bit giddy.

Battistella
Click to expand...

it would be great if they update the sensor as well, but Jarred has stated that Weapon follows the typical RED upgrade path of Sensor > Body > Sensor etc so it would appear this is mainly a body upgrade (form factor, connectors, internal boards to increase bandwidth)...

larger Dragon sensor cuts would be the most likely option...

would be great if they manage to make the sensor block modular / interchangeable, but then again the internal boards would still only be able to handle so much until u gotta upgrade again, i.e. if ur sensor block is now 65mm equivalent, your high speed frame rate options at full sensor capture would be like on the R1 MX... ;-)
 
The epic body is a mature platform, three years in tech terms,

I wrote in another post that I highly doubt RED designers have been looking at it for three years and saying it is perfect and not listening to the reams of feedback they get.

I really think it's going to be a ergonomic leap forward and a tech leap forward,a nd some smart moves backward, like mini XLR.

I really think no stills stills person is going to want to pass on it.

we highly underestimate the S, in DSMC. That is a huge market.

battistella
 
Microphones : I have always wondered why Microphone makers haven't reached out to (companies like) Devialet to get a 130dB turnkey Analogue to digital converter. Convert the signal to digital at source - be it on Lapel mikes - or on the back of a shotgun. Wheel in Bob Stuart (Meridian) or some of the other boffins (Devialet again) to fix time domain smearing and frequency response. Finally output a 24 or 32 bit digital signal that is Absolute sound pressure level -> and let any device, from iPhone to Top Weapon to input incorporate a Number of these digital streams (+ a default Hi DR Scratch from the camera body) into the video recording.

I guess what I suggesting is that maybe analogue XLR inputs, and the noisy propagation of signal, and the need to hope you have set analogue gain up correctly - something that like VHS tape ... in need of switching to the digital domain.

AJ
 
Sensor temperature : Another random thought. If there is a temperature that optimises the Sensor performance - and this is High or Low temperature - is there an option of using a Heat Pipe to enforce this temperature (ie boiling point set exactly at this temp) - and so (like ice) - it takes a huge amount of latent heat energy to get the temperature to shift from the ideal point (apologies if this is teaching anyone to suck eggs!)

This would mean that Black Shading would ALL be about just one temperature.

Which could me a differnt way of storing incremental drifts at different time points.

1/480 sec, 1/240sec, 1/120 sec, 1/60 sec, 1/24 sec, 1sec. => 6 incremental Balck shade point might cover 99.9% of all the Blackshades anyone is likely to need => and as these are all the same (&known) -> this could be completed in the Factory in a 1 hour super high precision fashion to eek out the best possible noise floor. I would speculate these might take less space that 6 arbitrarty temperatures.

AJ
 
David Battistella said:
i don't see where it says there will be a dragon sensor in there. I think the new sensor or name is weapon. I have not once seen the term weapon dragon or dragon associated with weapon.

Upgrade. Everyone is assuming it's a body only upgrade, but I'm not sure that is the case. It might be one of those, giant leaps forward.

And just to qualify. I know nothing. I've seen nothing and I have spoken to no one. I'm just sitting here on the other side of the world, a bit giddy.

Battistella
Click to expand...

David,

YOU JUST MADE MY HEART SKIP A BEAT!! Your observations are very accurate.
 
+1 - I just shot a thing where the "DP" insisted on windowing down to 4K (allegedly to make post "easier" how much easier does it need to be lol) and *refused* to take my hints that all he was doing was reducing IQ a bit and eliminating post pro options. But then again he also had me disassemble our amazing Dragon / Helix / Tomahawk / RT Motion rig to scramble together a handheld frankenstein rig just so he could shoot over cranked hand held (shaky cam) footage instead of sticking with the Directors choice of gimbal - resulting in not shaky and not smooth footage with little options for post stabalize.

Also, just because it's the same Dragon sensor doesn't mean RED didn't limit it's output to 6K for many legitimate reasons including that the old body / electronics can't support the overhead / throughput for more.

I'll bet a round of beers we're going to see frame rate increase (even if just burst), and mostly certain we'll see 8K and / or increased DR...


,
Phil Holland said:
Always kills me when I read stuff like that. Red is a mult-format system. All, and I mean all, of your Super 35mm glass covers 5K on Dragon. That's the format and the format nicely finishes out to 4K. The extra resolution and format size up to 6K is there if you want to "explore" it. Just because 6K is there doesn't mean it negates the usefulness or beauty found in the S35 glass and format.
Click to expand...
 
As to the dragon. Jarred pointed out they are using a tick tick model (Intel term) to bounce between sensor - body - sensor - body. Therefore this is the body upgrade using the same sensor. Which I am totally down with. I want a red cam that I can carry around like a c300.
 
I read it is the same Dragon sensor and then it is something new.

What is happening to the sensor must be the single biggest issue to get clarity on.

Has RED posted some clear information on this? Did I miss it perhaps?
 
Thomas Koch said:
As to the dragon. Jarred pointed out they are using a tick tick model (Intel term) to bounce between sensor - body - sensor - body. Therefore this is the body upgrade using the same sensor. Which I am totally down with. I want a red cam that I can carry around like a c300.
Click to expand...

Which also means that the next sensor might fit within this camera body.

I actually think it's a replacement of the processing power, making it less dependent on fans and cooling, while improving the algorithms that calculate the RAW sensor data. This would mean that why we need the Dragon sensor to be able to use the Weapon is because the sensor and the processing is more integrated with one another. It might also mean that it is next generation sensor ready. Red has of course a tech in development, the next step after Dragon, no questions about that. Maybe they know what they need in processing power and enables that now so the next transition is smoother.
 
My opinion:
The electronics will unlock more ability/info from the current dragon sensor. And it will be a larger cut of the dragon sensor. How big? Not sure, but Jarred said you can use the epic's current lens mounts IF you are using S35 or Full Frame lenses. This seems to imply that there may be other (medium format?) lens mounts coming, and perhaps the sensor cut is big enough to accommodate them, but that does seem a little crazy if so, it would blow everyone's minds if this is the case..

But I suppose we will see...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top