Pirates of the Caribbean 4

[Jeff Coatney]

Careful examination indicates the sail is likely CGI. Either time re-mapped or some overzealous motion blur applied to a cloth simulation. That's a lot of heavy canvas to billow and all I see are luff lines and shrouds on the mizzen - not enough wind. Ships of the period are unfurled at the yard and I didn't see any hands aloft. The Mizzen Topsail yard doesn't even have a sheet on it - so this is likely shot pre-rigging. The main sheet has no tells and she bunches on lines that aren't there. The shadows on the mizzen mast are static- not dynamic and the specular highlight from the sun is static as well. Now that the illusion is ruined, at least we know its not the camera's fault.

 

[Jason Sinclair]

I just watched it. Looked like film.

 

[Jeff Coatney]

I'd hate to release Casablanca today to see what people would say about every single frame of the movie...

Jim

No kidding. If this much scrutiny were directed at something of value like education, the legislature or crime, we would live in a glorious utopia.

 

[Christian Edwards]

Very true. I was also quite amazed by how great and consistent it looks, considering there's almost everything in the trailer: interiors, exteriors, daylight, night scenes, harsh & diffused, jungles, ships, water, it could be easily be used as a promo reel to show what RedMX is capable of in the right hands!

Really held up well against the hi res graphics chopped in too.Transitions felt natural ... seemless

 

[Nick Shaw]

If you step through the shot of the sail frame by frame - you can see that it has been "time remapped" in post production (if you know what to look for). Something they do all day long when editing trailers. That has nothing to do with shooting on RED. The same artifact would be seen if you shot on film. I think it's a great shot - I sincerely doubt 99% of the world will notice the frame blending. There is a small chance I am wrong here - and I'm seeing compression artifacts - but looks like a little time remap to me.

I agree. If you look at the rope in the centre of the sail you see a double image of it on a few frames as it flails about. Looks like frame blending to me.

Anyway, moving on…

 

[Michael Stanmore]

No kidding. If this much scrutiny were directed at something of value like education, the legislature or crime, we would live in a glorious utopia.

So true.

 

[Jason Sinclair]

A pirate flag is fitting in respect.

 

[Mark Toia]

Watched TRON last night and got a ripper head ache.
Is it me or is 3D movies starting to get really 1974!.....
I just want to watch a film without the gimmick! (AVATAR was an exception)

I'd rather just look at beautiful 4k. Looks more realistic with no crappy glasses dangling off my nose.

Who ever invents (proper) 3d viewing without glasses will be king.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Jim,

I saw the Pirates trailer in front of TRON on the IMAX screen. You know what I saw? Nothing.

I watched it, and thought, "cool I want to see this". It was a Pirate's movie.. Looked like the others I saw as well. It was only after that I thought.. Wait.. that was shot on RED!

Best compliment you can get I think.

It looked like the others.

Jay

 

[Steven Caesare]

And by the way. It also looked "weird" when I saw it. Couldn't put my finger on it at first but then noticed there was a very slight RGB "afterglow" (for the lack of a better word) - similar to what you'd see in the EVF when quickly moving your eyes from one side to the other. I think the projector might have been slightly off or something, giving (all) the trailers a very digital look.

This sounds like you are watching a color-sequential display... likely a single-chip DLP as you specify it was a projector. (The EVF is color-sequential as well).

As the colors are flashed on screen seperately in rapid succession, the technology relies upon your brain to integrate them to prodiue a blended color picture. If you dart your eyes rapidly about, each color hits your retina in a slightly different location, and thus you can see "rainbows", as they are often called amongst projector owners. It is most visible in large areas of white with high-contrast edges.

This has nothing to do with the RED footage, which I saw projected Satuday nite before Tron as well. It looked spectacular. I'm currently having a debate on another forum with a guy who works in the video/cinema industry (he doesn't seem to like Red footage"), so I was particularly attune to the reaction of the group I was with to see what unbiased observers saw. They all simply thought it looked great, (and just hope that PotC4 is better than 3).

Bravo Jim... a great testament to what you and the team have done.

-sc

 

[Andrew Rieger]

Jim,

I saw the Pirates trailer in front of TRON on the IMAX screen. You know what I saw? Nothing.

I watched it, and thought, "cool I want to see this". It was a Pirate's movie.. Looked like the others I saw as well. It was only after that I thought.. Wait.. that was shot on RED!

Best compliment you can get I think.

It looked like the others.

Jay

I was really hoping to see the Pirates trailer in front of Tron in Imax but all they played was 2D trailers for The Green Hornet and The Green Lantern.

Everyone with my group walked out all jazzed up about Tron and being a glass is half empty kind of guy, the first thing I said was, "No Pirates 4 trailer in Imax 3D, what's up with that?" I just got strange looks.

 

[Anthony Rinaldi]

I was really hoping to see the Pirates trailer in front of Tron in Imax but all they played was 2D trailers for The Green Hornet and The Green Lantern.

Everyone with my group walked out all jazzed up about Tron and being a glass is half empty kind of guy, the first thing I said was, "No Pirates 4 trailer in Imax 3D, what's up with that?" I just got strange looks.

They played it at the regular 3D theatre when I saw TRON on Wednesday. I quite enjoyed it, and to my untrained eye, it did look just as good if not better than Pirates 1-3.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If you step through the shot of the sail frame by frame - you can see that it has been "time remapped" in post production (if you know what to look for). Something they do all day long when editing trailers. That has nothing to do with shooting on RED. The same artifact would be seen if you shot on film. I think it's a great shot - I sincerely doubt 99% of the world will notice the frame blending. There is a small chance I am wrong here - and I'm seeing compression artifacts - but looks like a little time remap to me.

I concur with this analysis. I saw it on the big screen yesterday before Tron. And Pirates was the best looking trailer played. That shot was totally re-timed. Easy to see if you step through the trailer frame by frame.

...And I don't get why everyone is so desperate to over-analyze something that was shot on a RED camera, after it has been post-processed, and make judgement calls like this. Why do we not see people over-analyzing Alexa or F35 footage in this way? Seriously? If they are, where are they discussing it?

And by the way. It also looked "weird" when I saw it. Couldn't put my finger on it at first but then noticed there was a very slight RGB "afterglow" (for the lack of a better word) - similar to what you'd see in the EVF when quickly moving your eyes from one side to the other. I think the projector might have been slightly off or something, giving (all) the trailers a very digital look.

DLP rainbows? I see them too on some (mostly older) DLP projection systems. Nature of the beast. Thankfully the new Sony 4K projectors don't have these issues (not DLP anyway). The new Christie / Barco projectors are rainbow-free as well.

 

[Francesco Bonomo]

...And I don't get why everyone is so desperate to over-analyze something that was shot on a RED camera, after it has been post-processed, and make judgement calls like this.

Jeff, since I was the one "guilty" of pointing out that shot and asking a question about it, can someone please tell me where and when did I sound like I was blaming the camera, the cinematographer, the production, or something else? or where I was making a "judgement call" at all? Did I say that Red sucks? Did I say that the trailer is the worst looking piece of trash I've ever seen?
If you read my intial post, I don't think there's absolutely anything I've written that implied it was a "problem" with the camera. I was just curious about why that specific 1-second shot looked like that, because while watching the (amazing) trailer it felt kind of out of place. I'm glad Mark replied with an answer that explains what might have happened. Is that such a big deal? If so, please let me know, and I'll think twice before asking anything like that again.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Just watched a preview in 2k, and all I can say was WOW, and I do KNOW my SKIN tones extremely well, and I was simply left in LOVE with how this
Movie looked, full reach colors, deep Blaks, incredible Skin textures, and amazing Sharpness in the Eyes, were you could see shiny cornea drawing of
the eye shape during a pause, absolutely stunning, and can't wait to see it in S3D!!

Truly this Movie marks the things and shapes what a Movie of this Generation should look like.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jeff, since I was the one "guilty" of pointing out that shot and asking a question about it, can someone please tell me where and when did I sound like I was blaming the camera, the cinematographer, the production, or something else? or where I was making a "judgement call" at all? Did I say that Red sucks? Did I say that the trailer is the worst looking piece of trash I've ever seen?
If you read my intial post, I don't think there's absolutely anything I've written that implied it was a "problem" with the camera. I was just curious about why that specific 1-second shot looked like that, because while watching the (amazing) trailer it felt kind of out of place. I'm glad Mark replied with an answer that explains what might have happened. Is that such a big deal? If so, please let me know, and I'll think twice before asking anything like that again.

Sorry, some of us are a bit over-defensive around here. All too often we see a statement like yours get posted and then the next thing you know, it's the latest anti-RED industry FUD being spread all over town.

My point was, we have more pixel-peepers and office-chair-vimeo-watching-analyzers on this forum than would seem humanly possible. People who attempt to critically analyze image quality from a beta camera, based on a single medium-quality, quarter-rez, JPG and then they get their panties in a twist when they see a possible image artifact. I was questioning (and not directed at you) why we don't see this level of scrutiny aimed at other big cameras on the market? Perhaps it's because they don't have discussion forums where such discussions are allowed to exist, nor do they have common everyday users showing up to chat... Who knows.

 

[Zack Birlew]

I don't know if it was just me or what but the only thing I saw that irked me a bit was that it looked like they went 1/24 shutter in some scenes, thus giving that smooth video motion look that some certain Genesis-filmed films used to combat low light situations. Hate that, even though I myself have had to resort to that on some Canon HV20 shoots years ago.

Other than that, it looked great, no difference save for lighting differences. I don't know if it was just because the trailer had so many dark night scenes blended in but I just didn't seem able to notice the same crisp bright lighting of the first three. Hopefully it was just the trailer's mix throwing me off because I love the way the first three looked.

 

[Francesco Bonomo]

Sorry, some of us are a bit over-defensive around here. All too often we see a statement like yours get posted and then the next thing you know, it's the latest anti-RED industry FUD being spread all over town.

It's ok, I understand that. But please bear in mind that sometimes a question like that can come from someone (like me) who doesn't really have any agenda or wish to start some anti-Red crusade (which, if you ask me, would be quite pointless). Thanks for your reply, Jeff.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

On a different note, Sicktime player took 5 most advanced minutes to save 180 MB trailer in native format to 300MB/s RAID.

And that Aston Martin is ridiculous.

 

[Emmanuel Lariviere]

Hey guys, I have to stick up for Francesco. If you really read his original post, he's saying the footage looks fantastic and can't wait to see it and I agree. He just pointed out what he observed and questioned the cause of the motion artifact, just like I did. I'm not a troll and I doubt Francesco is, we just pointed out what we saw. Some people commented on what they thought caused it and that's awesome and some are acting like there is an agenda. There's no agenda here, thanks to those who gave answers.