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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Phil's RED V-Raptor Paddock

Would love to know the real world usability of the audio system. What bits/bobs/cables will we need to have full size XLR and how robust of an audio signal will the camera record? I found DSMC 1 pretty good from an audio perspective…then DSMC 2 was pretty terrible. Where have we landed with 3?!
 
Phil Holland said:
Basically I just discovered you can indeed attach the Teradek Bolt 4K.
Click to expand...

Awesome! I was definitely worried about testing this with my Bolt 4K. Is there a tight “clicking” lock between them? And doesn’t want to pop off with a good bump from the underside?
 
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  • #23
Andy Maser said:
Would love to know the real world usability of the audio system. What bits/bobs/cables will we need to have full size XLR and how robust of an audio signal will the camera record? I found DSMC 1 pretty good from an audio perspective…then DSMC 2 was pretty terrible. Where have we landed with 3?!
Click to expand...

Testing shortly. We "regained" +48v Phantom Power, that's big. You just need the correct ODU 5-pin to dual XLR or whatever cable. I'm personally waiting on the RED dual XLR adapter, also really curious where the heck that gets mounted on my setups. Seems a lot of the cables are right angle cables on the market, I'm likely going to have a few made to XLR and TA3.

Camera is quieter too. If I was to mount a shotgun to this I'd focus on coming of the "dumb side" right or going over the top away from the fan if possible. But in terms of boom mic, I don't see any issues. I will do a side by side with Komodo which is very quiet, V-Raptor, and DSMC2.
 
What baseplate are you using? Its looked like you used wc komodo one in the the test shoot? its not adjustable is it, the rod height/spacing is wrong no?
 
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  • #25
Vicky Marie Marks said:
What baseplate are you using? Its looked like you used wc komodo one in the the test shoot? its not adjustable is it, the rod height/spacing is wrong no?
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Had to quickly use what I had for this test shoot and that is indeed the Komodo plate and that WC system. It provided a correct height for 19mm rods (15mm too), I prefer 19mm most of the time. What I will be doing however is getting that new RED/CS/WC plate teased on the live stream and securing it to a 19mm base.

I didn't have access to all the goodies shown that early on. I'm still digesting what my basic kit is going to be, and the complicated factor of if I'm buying two of this style of V-Raptor or two XLs. Discovering that is going to be the hard part for my particular use case. I shoot a wide variety of content, but generally I favor smaller cameras that I can make bigger. But XL fits in certain types of rigs it's going to be a harder decision based on what it can do over the smaller camera. At the moment, I'm digging the smaller body for sure and we haven't seen any real accessories just yet because it's all so new.

Cine Gear is tomorrow. Likely more to digest.
 
Phil Holland said:
I shoot a wide variety of content, but generally I favor smaller cameras that I can make bigger.
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Amen.

So curious to see what basic run & gun rigs look like with so little real estate. Like, with DSMC2 I'd just velcro a lav receiver, a wireless Tx and a timecode box onto the back of the 7" monitor. And away you go. Where the heck do those things go on Raptor without making the camera gangly?
 
Mr. Holland, On the monitor connection, I think the dangle-wire is a drawback and a step away from the modularity I have read, that you favored. The monitor should not have an exposed wire at all, its connection should all be solid-state. If you work out of doors in the woods, then you don't need anything dangling around to get ripped off. And also, for the outdoors person, any loosely connected wire is also a turn off. Usb C and HDMI are a pain; any plugs should be totally securable if they are present at all. The reduction in weight and bulkiness over the DSMC2 led me to trade back the DSMC2 Battle Tested camera I had just bought, as I work out-of-doors in the woods all the time. But then, I would like to see the modularity of the DSMC2 in the Raptor; modularity equals flexibility, expandability. Question: I am essentially an artist and writer and I do a lot of still photography. I was drawn to the Red Line as the off the shelf DSLR's have too many limitations when it comes to expansion to video. My question here is: could there ever be a swap-version of a global shutter for this camera? Would this be needed; Why or why not?
 
Do you have any idea if the 6k and raptor has the same crop factor as the 6k on a monstro?
Thank you for all the info you give to the community though ;-)
 
Nice, last time i checked the RED tool wasnt taking the raptor into consideration. I didnt know about Phil's compare tool. this guy really puts a lot of work for us!
 
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  • #32
Cine Gear just came and went, which slowed a few of my tests down.

One thing I will say, the RF Mount with the locking collar is much stronger than I suspected. I will still recommend using a rod support for RF>PL adapters overall, but I'm currently stress testing and for most of my primes there's zero flex, lean, or wiggle of any sort. This is superior than my R5's mount for instance in stability, rigidness, and connection so far.

I don't think it is stronger than an interchangeable mount with 4X steal bolts, but I don't think it's that much weaker either.

This week I get to do a few of my technical tests. I've also been preparing a few things for REDUSER regarding V-Raptor as well.
 
Phil Holland said:
Cine Gear just came and went, which slowed a few of my tests down.

One thing I will say, the RF Mount with the locking collar is much stronger than I suspected. I will still recommend using a rod support for RF>PL adapters overall, but I'm currently stress testing and for most of my primes there's zero flex, lean, or wiggle of any sort. This is superior than my R5's mount for instance in stability, rigidness, and connection so far.

I don't think it is stronger than an interchangeable mount with 4X steal bolts, but I don't think it's that much weaker either.

This week I get to do a few of my technical tests. I've also been preparing a few things for REDUSER regarding V-Raptor as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tests in advance and whatever the 'thing' regarding V-Raptor will be.
 
Phil Holland could you confirm data rates for this thing. I have run some basic numbers as I understand them and there isn't a card out there (yeah there's only one for now) that can handle like even 10 min FF at 120? That's with my understanding that 5:1 is MQ. Maybe I'm wrong and MQ is actually like 12:1 which should give us around 20 min. Also I can confirm the Sony cards don't work well with Raptor. Refereeing to the Tough series I have 2 (512GB) and they stop recording after <=2min @ FF 48FPS, and less that 30 seconds at full BUS. Was waiting for the larger 1.3TB but looks like Im gonna have to pick up a couple 660s soon
 
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  • #35
George Nathanson said:
Phil Holland could you confirm data rates for this thing. I have run some basic numbers as I understand them and there isn't a card out there (yeah there's only one for now) that can handle like even 10 min FF at 120? That's with my understanding that 5:1 is MQ. Maybe I'm wrong and MQ is actually like 12:1 which should give us around 20 min. Also I can confirm the Sony cards don't work well with Raptor. Refereeing to the Tough series I have 2 (512GB) and they stop recording after <=2min @ FF 48FPS, and less that 30 seconds at full BUS. Was waiting for the larger 1.3TB but looks like Im gonna have to pick up a couple 660s soon
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I'll run some numbers, but it's not "straight math" because it's not a fixed data rate, it will vary depending on in frame content, so you must derive an estimate somewhat based on an average. Which is why I haven't updated my tools even for Komodo.

To give you an idea, here's the record times for 8K 17:9 24p at all 3 REDCODE RAW ratios on V-Raptor using the 660GB RED CFx card:
- HQ = 24 minutes
- MQ = 35 minutes
- LQ = 56 minutes

Given that V-Raptor can actually handle up to 8K 17:9 at 60fps using HQ, MQ, or LQ and that equates to:
- HQ = 13 minutes
- MQ = 14 minutes
- LQ = 22 minutes

120fps is at LQ only for 8K 17:9.

I ran into a few V-Raptor owners and a couple waiting on their bodies at Cine Gear. Interestingly several of them will be rolling LQ primarily, which is a decent amount of roll time off a 660GB card.

I'll need to do a lot more testing, but I'm suspecting that DCT REDCODE RAW at LQ is "close" to 5:1/6:1 Wavelet REDCODE RAW in terms of visual quality. That would be around a 1TB per hour at 5:1. What V-Raptor does is start there on a visual level and go to higher data rates. So far it's pretty close in visual fidelity between V-Raptors compression ratios. That's part of the big story on this camera in my mind. It was essentially the first thing I noticed when going from 24fps in HQ and cutting to 120fps LQ.

It's even harder now to really A/B because we have a new Enhanced Demosaic which literally changes how all RED cameras draw and look for the better. That's also a massive thing that also "just happened" and is about to properly once the SDK gets out there.
 
Thanks for all the great info. Your suggestion that we will be ballparking it seems prudent as I suspect there's a lot going on under the hood. And, much thanks for clearing up the quality level at 8k 120 (Always being LQ) I was assuming it was my "Unapproved media" but now I know.

Phil Holland said:
I ran into a few V-Raptor owners and a couple waiting on their bodies at Cine Gear. Interestingly several of them will be rolling LQ primarily, which is a decent amount of roll time off a 660GB card.
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LoL... All the media thrashing on RED and ARRI for lack of a presence at at CG. Guess they missed the fact that RED basically launched 2 new bodies in <=18mo, ARRI... Yeah I don't know what there doing over there. Trade shows are def lots of fun, but it's not really how we learn about product anymore.

Thanks again for all your work, and info sharing!
George
 
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