Phil's RED V-Raptor Paddock

[Phil Holland]

The beast has arrived and I even let the FedEx guy live. Saw a few others online get them today too.

Making a dedicated thread to the adventures I get up to with powerful little camera.

For those who want to see the impromptu unboxing and short Q&A I did on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CT-b8j8gFaU/

I have a lot of things to dig into and likely more even when XL becomes available to purchase. But I'll be sharing my thoughts and notes here as appropriate. Don't know if I can go as "fun" as my Komodo Dairies, pandemic allowed for a lot of free time, but I will be getting to know V-Raptor extremely intimately.

Two quick thoughts on my mind.

One. This somehow is the first Stormtrooper RED camera I've owned. My previous bodies have all been black or forged and have gone through upgrade paths. Komodo Orange was a bit of a special thing on it's own. As well as this bad boy.

Two. When I worked with VistaVision film cameras in the 2000s they topped out at 72fps and weighed about 40lbs without a lens or power solution. Closer to 60-80lbs once all is said and done. DSMC2 Monstro 8K VV gets you to 60fps in this format, but V-Raptor exceeds that format on FPS by going to 120fps in an alarmingly small camera body. This is something for me in particular I will never not be amazed by.


One other thing now that I'm staring at it more. Thinking about accessories and rigging. I've already mentioned that I'm "hot" for an EVF solution. Looking forward to the Top Handle and other bits. Really, really want the base plate system teased on the live stream. RED seems to have avoided the world modularity when marketing V-Raptor, but with the I/O, top plate, and XLR breakout it is indeed modular and will likely get it closer in size to V-Raptor XL.

Feel free to hit me up with questions, things you want to see, etc. I'll do my best with the time I have.

 

[Phil Holland]

First couple of hours notes and this will perhaps give you some an idea of the mindset when I'm digging into a new camera system.

V-Raptor 8K VV Boot Time

26-28 seconds flat without a CFx card in.

Unsure if media capacity impacts boot time, but that happens on other cameras. Will do more testing once I have more capacities and such.

Next to the Power Switch there is an LED indicator. During boot it's orange, hits green when it's happy and alive.

Camera Shutdown = 12 seconds.


Side Menu Panel Functions, Quick Panels, User Presets

This stuff is for Owner/OPs, First Camera Assistants, and DPs who want to know where stuff is.

On the Side Menu Panel (SMP) you have quick access to:

- FPS
- ISO
- SHUTTER SPEED/SHUTTER ANGLE (long press to toggle between degrees and shutter speed)
- WB (TINT is accessible once in the menu)
- PROJECT
- MEDIA
- MONITOR
- PLAY (currently when you press play it loads last clip and starts playing and it's quick)

Much like Komodo, and this is different from DSMC and DSMC2, you change your Recording Format and Resolution via "Project Settings".


On the Side Menu Panel (SMP) you can hit the up or down arrow and that will toggle through a few things.

As of now this is how it works with me doing "nothing".

Pressing Up once goes to USER 1 settings. There are 8 shortcut keys on the SMP here that are user definable. Default Key 1 = Eject Media, Default Key 2 = Auto WB. Other keys are blank by default.

Pressing Up Again gets you to an Audio Menu on the SMP. Headphone Volume, Source, Settings, and Meters.

Pressing Up Again gets you to another Audio Menu to control CH 3/4.

Pressing Up Again gets you to another Audio Menu to controll CH 1/2. You're getting the idea.

Pressing Up Again gets you to SDI 1 and SDI 2 Menu. You can independently control what goes to each of these.

Pressing Up Again gets you to the In Camera Tools for Focus and Exposure.

Pressing Up Again gets you to a SMP fullscreen display of the RAW Exposure Bars and Histogram.

This behavior reverses if you Press Down. Essentially you are cycling through the quick menus. All of this is accessible through the MENU button

As I mentioned during the test shoot, menus are quick and responsive.

There are 3 banks of User Settings, you can Save Presets. You can also control the Side LCD Control panels via the User Settings. Beyond customizing the SMP buttons, you can reprogram the Front Record Button.

My DSMC3 LCD isn't here yet, but I would believe this is also where you would program those 4 shortcuts unless it's in the monitor itself.


Battery Things

Because this camera uses V-Lock, Micro-V to be specific, some batteries can transmit battery information to the camera brain. It currently displays on the SMP a battery icon with % remaining. You can also see approximate time remainging under Menu>System Settings>Power.

Interestingly this camera seems to be "happy when not rolling". Quoted from the manual of 60Wh to 75Wh at full load, but the camera also seems to be very efficient at idle.

A fresh Global Dynamics United 98Wh battery for instance reads over two hours if the camera is not doing anything.

The Eject Button is a glorious anodized red METAL button Button is a deep plunge to release too, no accidents here. And the Vampire Tooth to lock the battery is rather robust. Yes. I shook it around aggressively.

When attaching a Micro-V the Eject Button will slide in and slide out with a small "click" to let you know that sucker is in there.


Fans and Cooling

Pretty quiet. Will need to do a side by side with Monstro and Komodo. No high pitched whine though. I have freaky good hearing and will whip out the dB meter. But without that, pretty much a non-issue around 24 inches.


RF Lens Mount

Locking Collar and general registration pin/spring is very, very strong. The Locking Collar tightens the play the RF mount and there is no "wiggle" if you are trying to slightly rotate a lens or adapter. Interesting to compare the play between the collar being locked or not actually. Really, really nice.

I've tested 5 RF lenses and 5 RF Mount Adapters. 3X PL, 1X Leica-M, and 1X Canon EF. I have more mounts to test and even RF Speedbooters.

I'd still recommend a supporting bolt for RF>PL Adapters, however, you can get away with smaller primes just fine without it. The collar is very strong.


Camera Base

Same Bolt pattern as DSMC2. 2X 3/8"-16 1X 1/4"-20.


Sensor Calibration

About 4:30 seconds. DSMC2 Monstro 8K VV and Helium 8K S35 are 8 minutes.


Indicator LEDs

3 to take note of. One near the Power Switch. One Near the Media Bay Door. One camera front, that's the Tally Light.


Alright. Diving back in.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I'd be curious to see how well M lenses work with this sensor. Quite frankly, some of them are terrible even on the M bodies, and I'm thinking mainly of the superwides. Of course it's not all bad, because you can crop a little and be rid of the awful corners.

Interesting observation I made: the 75 Summarit is arguably better than the 75 Apo Summicron - at least on digital M's. On film, though, that's a different story. The worst 75 I've seen on a digital M is the Voigtlander 75/1.8. Their other 75 is great. I've seen some M lenses measured on Sony bodies and OMG it's an utter shitshow.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Phil,

Not a big fan of white cameras but that Raptor does look sweet. I am personally most interested in the new sensor design. How does the DR compare to say the Monstro and the Arri LF? Not only in total DR but how much more useable are pixels in the toe and shoulder? Also colour response and fidelity is super interesting although tougher to quantify. The change to Cosine from Wavelet is also very interesting and I would love to see some comparisons. I am looking forward to your contribution.

 

[rand thompson]

Karim,

I also have alot of Leica M series lenses( Leica 75mm and 90mm f2.5 Summirat , Voigtlander 35mm and 50mm F2 Lanthar and Voigtlander 40mm and 50mm f1.2 Noktons)and would like to see how they perform on the V-Raptor. I also have the Zeiss OTUS 55mm and 85mm lenses. Phil I believe you also have them both and it would be nice to see how they look with the V-Raptor.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

The big questions I still have are about dynamic range and sensitivity. Where does it clip relative to Monstro/Gemini/komodo and how much cleaner are shadows and high ISOs.

Also I saw a post from another user who quoted compression ratios that appeared to be about 2x higher than komodos seem to be for the same settings so I'd definitely be curious what the actual compression ratio and bitrates are. Sounds like it's VBR so I also wonder how much it actually can vary with scene content and especially noise/exposure levels.

 

[Phil Holland]

I'd be curious to see how well M lenses work with this sensor.

I have a few M-Mount lenses here. The difficulty is the retrofocus design versus the microlenses on any given sensor. A well known and documented thing nowadays. Leica-M cameras feature more "bulbous" microlenses to assist with the crazy extreme axis rays of light entering the wells. On most cameras the light rays skip and smear causing softness that isn't very "Leica-like".

But! There are a bunch that play well.

Hilariously I put my MS-Optics 28mm f/2 on there today, which is basically a pancake lens and that works nicely. Just not a very "shooting friendly" lens for motion.

enses

Yep. Zeiss Otus primes had a ride on V-Raptor today. They continue to impress. I'm actually waiting on my Sigmas to get back from servicing. Eager to explore the speeds in particular because they are sized pretty nicely for the camera body. CP3s and Supremes to a similar capacity. I don't mind using glass like the Tokinas on there, though it's interesting to see the camera dwarfed by the lens occasionally.

quantify

dynamic range and sensitivity

I did a round of compression tests for Komodo, but what's nice about V-Raptor is we have a 1:1 sensor to compare against with Monstro. That will allow for a few things to be discerned. Of my top interests:

- Image Noise and Sensitivity with all OLPFs
- Dynamic Range Test
- Various IQ Tests

I'm actually building a few new stress testing devices this year to test a couple specific things. My back office has become a torture chamber for cameras. I'm adding the iron maiden into the mix this year. This will pay off in spades once all the new cameras drop too.


Working on a few things to share here on REDuser already, dedicated thread stuff, trying to use this free time ahead of Cine Gear wisely to crank out some useful things for people. So much is happening so quickly and essentially all at once it's a little overwhelming to tackle. A key thing I need to do next week is a specific test for one of my major clients on top of the technical tests.


Btw. I have a few monitors to use on camera here. I'm more of a 7.0" man, but 5" rides nicely for a tidy kit. But yeah, when I sleep tonight I'll do some chanting for a sensible OLPF to be crafted by somebody. OLED, could actually be 4K in 2021 and we do have 4K out on this beast. Not a deal breaker if not. I have no clue what the USB-C protocol that RED is using can actually transmit.

Pavavision's Primo EVF is on my mind. OLED, 600nit, SDI, etc. The optics and experience on that are very good, but it's rental only. Curious if something similar with a slightly smaller form factor is possible. What I like about the DSMC2 EVF is it's compact size and general image quality. I personally wouldn't mind a larger stage though.

The accessories that were shown on the stream already are showing a lot of promise in their design, which makes sense considering a few of the key players now involved. Pretty talented and driven people being injected into the mold now. It's an interesting strategy essentially to rely on other manufacturers to make critical components. This crossbreeding might lead to some interesting concepts. DSMC2 was such a highly integrated system and yet many built outside of that for their rigs. Going from a rig that could be gak-less to a very "diffuse this things before it blows" sort of build. I see some weird hybrid concepts in the future rigs for sure.

 

[Jason Bodnar]

Phil, if you get a chance can you do some 2k 600fps tests? I am just curious how usable it will be and how the noise is cropped in that much. Also, ISO and light requirements to get best results.

Thanks

 

[rand thompson]

Phil,

Thanks for the reply! What was wrong with the Sigmas that they needed servicing?

 

[Phil Holland]

Phil, if you get a chance can you do some 2k 600fps tests? I am just curious how usable it will be and how the noise is cropped in that much. Also, ISO and light requirements to get best results.

What's 2K? Kidding. Yes. Testing all the max fps. Going to be a fun one with shutter speeds like 1/600th-1/1200th!

Thanks for the reply! What was wrong with the Sigmas that they needed servicing?

I had one of if not the first sets out there. A little spit and polish, but also an electronic upgrade. I'll post pictures. There's been obviously one notable feature added to the primes since launch. Just want my set to all play nicely together.

 

[Jason Bodnar]

Thanks Phil! All your efforts are much appreciated. Yes those shutter speeds

 

[Daniel Bichler]

Thanks Phil for all details and testing!

I am always wondering how 2K performs with S16 lenses. Now there might be a great new era to reuse S16 lenses with 600fps! I was hoping for 4K 480fps, though! Maybe XL will do that?

Can you already tell how the back focus adjustment works on Raptor?

 

[Michael Lindsay]

Can you already tell how the back focus adjustment works on Raptor?

I'd be interested in this... is there still a grub screw adjustment or shims?

 

[Daniel Bichler]

P.S. I wonder how to mount the V-Raptor for 9:16 social media content. I know, this camera is not a social media camera, but for us there is more often the situation where we have to shoot additional 9:16 content. Therefore I was hoping for a 1:1 sensor, but I guess we still have to rig the camera vertically in future. But now on Raptor there is a monitor on the one side and a badly placed media slot on the other side.
Ideally our ACs would mount Raptor vertically on the media side in order to have all control options. But then you need to derig the camera for media removals. That was not an issue with Mini-Mags on DSMC2 and/or Alexa Mini.

 

[vincent kardasik]

Thanks so much Phil for sharing your experience with that new beast !
Those past few weeks, I started being worried that Raptor may not be a camera for me... Or at least for the way I've used Red cameras so far.
Batteries seemed an issue, wavelet VS DCT hard to deal with in terms of storage, etc...
Since the Epic-M release, I always upgraded my camera bodies, this is the first time I jumped on a stormtrooper program and to be honest my Monster is doing such a great job, I'm not sure I need the Raptor...
But the more I read this thread, the more I'm excited in trying it and maybe moving on from DSMC2 to DSMC3.

 

[Brody_B]

P.S. I wonder how to mount the V-Raptor for 9:16 social media content. I know, this camera is not a social media camera, but for us there is more often the situation where we have to shoot additional 9:16 content. Therefore I was hoping for a 1:1 sensor, but I guess we still have to rig the camera vertically in future. But now on Raptor there is a monitor on the one side and a badly placed media slot on the other side.
Ideally our ACs would mount Raptor vertically on the media side in order to have all control options. But then you need to derig the camera for media removals. That was not an issue with Mini-Mags on DSMC2 and/or Alexa Mini.

Just get yourself a 3 way head. It can roll the camera to a vertical position while still mounted at the base. And the DSMC3 monitor is designed to detach from the body and attach to any 15mm rod config thru its wired connection.

 

[Phil Holland]

P.S. I wonder how to mount the V-Raptor for 9:16 social media content.

Two strategies have emerged, and this isn't really RED exclusive even.

1. Using a 3-axis head or L-Bracket (like the WC one) positioning or mounting the camera at 90 degrees. Additionally some cages allow for plates to mounted on the side of the camera pretty easily.
2. Film normally with a frame guide for 9:16 extraction.

On RED 8K cameras you have a 4320 pixel tall frame in normal orientation, which is often more than enough for social media projects. Of course you have 8K via rotating the camera.

On projects that desire a 9:16 vertical frame and still desire to have a wide aspect ratio when users rotate the device, option 2 there is the way to go big time.

I often shoot vertical for arrays, but occasionally I get tapped to do some signage/exhibition display stuff. I mount the camera on it's side for that as that's the delivery ratio.

 

[Russ Fill]

Phil, if you get a chance can you do some 2k 600fps tests? I am just curious how usable it will be and how the noise is cropped in that much. Also, ISO and light requirements to get best results.

Thanks

A GIANT +1 on this also. Need to know what 600 or close to that at 2 K looks like and all else will be answered from that info.

 

[Jonathan Petts]

I'd be interested in this... is there still a grub screw adjustment or shims?

Fixed sensor position - so you’ll have to shim the mount you are using for any adjustments.

 

[Phil Holland]

Whelp, chalk this up to a today I learned:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CULEOv9twy6/?utm_medium=copy_link

Basically I just discovered you can indeed attach the Teradek Bolt 4K, likely other brick mount wireless systems too.

Huge relief as I am doing 4K monitoring on set now and fairly invested in that trajectory.

One consideration, and you'll see that in the image, is I removed the WiFi antenna just to be safe and clear it. This also allowed me to attach a full size V-Mount Battery at the rear to power all this as well.

Big, huge, massive relief.