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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Phil Holland Weapon Test

Thank you, Phil. Always love these tests, they're very informative and helpful. Also have the same Buck knife!
 
So here's a question, noise in prores vs r3d in lowlight situations, can you comment? And the prores is from a full debayer correct?
 
Mark Toia said:
... You probably don't shoot out of helicopters as much as me Ketch, where landing to change out filters becomes expensive an annoying.
You have to figure out the sweet spot when filming from a heli.. You could be shooting in the dark shadows of skyscrapers, then pop up into bright daylight.. Then the light falls to dark.. So the last thing you need is a ND9 hanging off the front.


So when you do need to stop down because a glorious SUN SET just happens to fill the shot, ... thats when you get caught out.


I very seldom ever need to shoot past F11... but there are times just when it cannot be helped...
Flying through the guts of NY and the airport is 15 minutes away, you change filters, get clearance, take off again...... 15minutes to get back to location ooooh and the SUN AINT THERE ANYMORE!!!.


Lots of so called experts sit on the ground watching.
Click to expand...


No Mark,


Most unlikely, even so I do shoot a good deal of footage on Heli, but by the looks of your work surely not even close to what you have been shooting by far...


You of course make sense, where I see you would prefer to deal with a little of extra artifacts form the very small aperture and not as ideal lens spot performance in exchange of the described possibility to follow your workflow of shooting simply NOT to miss a shot.


I am fortunate enough where all the work I do, I control extremely well, just the nature of the work, love what you do and how you do it, but I prefer Fashion and Narrative work and this does or at list has so far always afforded me to be able to take my time to set up the camera with ideal filtration...


But as I move to a Shoot Over for some future work including more extreme landscape and Aerial Action shoots, then I might be forced to consider your points further down the line...








Mark Toia said:
... Lots of so called experts sit on the ground watching.
Click to expand...


Mark I hope the above comment was not directly aimed at me because my quoting you in my early reply, which of course was surely NOT meant to point at you in any way as for my reference in shooting with a top T stop of 11, and for this not concerned of the artifacts at T18...


It surely wouldn't be nice if it was... As I definitely don't see myself in the "so called experts" category... And have too much respect for you and your work to make a direct comment in such way, and I would expect the same respect form you... :)



BTW, do please note that in my original post I did wrote about special needs and situations for "aerial" shoot... :)
 
Phil, you are the best! Thanks once agin for your dedication to our craft.......And keeping us informed.
 
Thank you, Phil. Clear and informative as usual.
Drooling for a similar ISO increasing scale test @ 4K (3:1 and 7:1 standard olpf)
Assuming you already know if shooting 4K out of your Weapon would be a fair representation of Raven, or not..
 
And since nobody else has said it, you write so damn well. Always a joy and educational. I happened to screw up and shoot two whole scenes in 5,000 ISO on my steadicam. Sloppy of me, but I was one man banding it and directing at the same time so I didn't catch it. Remarkably the footage looks great and Neat video cleaned it up so you can't even tell. So 250-2000 is a great rule, but it can be pushed much harder with decent results.
 
Thank you, Phil! Your diligence makes us all better. So greatly appreciated!
 
Thanks all.

Brian Anderson said:
was this shot on with the otus lens?
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It was. Modified Zeiss Otus lenses and the 28-80mm T2.9 Compact Zoom.


KETCH ROSSi said:
k is really great that Phil pushed the test to T18, but at least myself I know I would never shoot any lens no matter how great they are over T11, Master Primes been that I kept them always from T1.3 to T11, so why it is again good to see what one OLPF does vs the other at such extreme aperture, I am more interested in the results from WO till T11.

Mainly because I use Filters, but I guess I could easily see the need for those shooting without filters to close down as much as they can in certain Aerial set ups especially.
Click to expand...

Depends on the lens. This was a stress test and at T18 diffraction was already apparent, I sort of wanted to show a worse case scenario. Most primes top out at T16, zooms around T22. So T18 is what I used.

The effect is apparent at T11 on Master Primes, but it will depend on the lens and focal length.

To yours and Mark's points on helicopter'n. I spent about 200+ hours this year in birds. My solution overall was a weird combo of Motion Mount and when that wasn't the right call, ND filters + an optical clear. Requires a bit of planning and thought, but that method worked very well for me. Mostly shoot Master Primes and a zooms from the air.


Björn Benckert said:
Think Jarred should include a Phil in every sold Weapon package... And possibly also include a spider checker board and cube. That way colours would be as should, always. :thumbsup:
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Heh. I'm available in holographic form :) But actually, for me, this was the whole idea behind writing the DSMC Field Ops Guide this year.


Alvise Tedesco said:
Thank you, Phil. Clear and informative as usual.
Drooling for a similar ISO increasing scale test @ 4K (3:1 and 7:1 standard olpf)
Assuming you already know if shooting 4K out of your Weapon would be a fair representation of Raven, or not..
Click to expand...

I believe it would be a fair comparison. But it would be nicer if I actually shot that test footage on Raven. I'll get to working on that. FYI, since the bulk of this Weapon 6K FF footage was shot at 3:1, the 4K FF crop "should" be identical to Raven with the Standard OLPF. So on that side of things I think we know what to expect there.


Ryan Purcell said:
Great test. I have to say I've been reconsidering my decision NOT to upgrade. Compression is a big reason.
Click to expand...

Yep. It's always been the main reason for me when looking at Weapon. I understood exactly what that would get me when it comes to general shooting and image quality.

I did do some stress tests on some tricky colors and textures.

Here's some 6K FF @ 72fps with REDCODE RAW 8:1:


 
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good stuff. very interested in these comparisons between OLPFs. has been on my to-do list for ages....

weirdly, I still prefer the LLO for general usage - STH seems a little less true, a little warmer out of the camera. My expectations were to prefer the STH or the standard, when it was released, but I love the LLO look and also like having the extra stops when I need them. great to have choices, either way. looks like I don't need the standard after all, though.

thanks for sharing, Phil - very eye opening. :drool:
 
Haven't tried the Dragon Standard OLPF. If it's LLO vs STH, to my eye, the STH produces truer colors and I don't have to constantly check for the magenta hazing I sometimes get on the LLO. The red orbs are the obvious artifact, but sometimes they're diffused enough that I don't see them until I get to post. For me, LLO means low light only. YMMV.

Cheers - #19
 
Phil Holland said:
...

Depends on the lens. This was a stress test and at T18 diffraction was already apparent, I sort of wanted to show a worse case scenario. Most primes top out at T16, zooms around T22. So T18 is what I used.

The effect is apparent at T11 on Master Primes, but it will depend on the lens and focal length.

To yours and Mark's points on helicopter'n. I spent about 200+ hours this year in birds. My solution overall was a weird combo of Motion Mount and when that wasn't the right call, ND filters + an optical clear. Requires a bit of planning and thought, but that method worked very well for me. Mostly shoot Master Primes and a zooms from the air.
Click to expand...

Yeah,

Got you Phil, and yes I agree with you, and as of Master Primes, that is why I top them at T11, but rarely actually ever shot over T8.

In truth this type of artifacts, which are seen in extreme situations, never really concern me as fortunately they are what they are, externe case scenarios and have a fix via OLPF, MM, ND's dialing in to fit once's need for capturing the image controlling even the worst of if...


Again, thanks so much for doing this for all of us to benefit, appreciate it every time!
 
Mark Toia said:
This frame interests me.
I may start using my Skin tone OLPF in my aerial work.. Those RED DOTS often catch me out when pointing into the sun at closed apertures.

Now if anyone out there can make a high-brid of l a low light sensitivity and Skin tone that can spare us the RED DOTS and give us low low capabilities. I'll order 4 of them the moment they are online.

Thanks for the tests Phil.
Click to expand...

I agree. I immediately jumped on the waiting list for the Standard OLPF when it was announced, but I might just cancel my order after seeing these tests. It doesn't look like there's enough of an improvement in the red orbs to justify using it over the LL OLPF.

Phil, do you agree?
 
Phil - amazing test.

OLPF : I am curious to hear more of thoughts comparing the STANDARD vs SKIN TONE.
There seems to be more saturation in the Skin Tone - and a feeling of depth (IMHO).

Pro Res : The refections of light on the models skin look less saturated - almost like a cooler light was being used compared with R3D.
Makes me feel like there is very very fine mist in the room.

Match test : The colour of the STANDARD vs SKIN TONE look very different to my eyes. Do you have thoughts on which seemed more accurate?

Thankyou,
AJ

<Caveat : Newly calibrated monitor, I may well be imagining all of the above!>
 
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