ODEMAX in the fall?

[Alex Kiritz]

I asked the Magnolia guy at Bestbuy a few days ago if they had any Redray players. He said that nobody had them yet and that they were coming in the fall. I didn't think to ask for clarification until after I had left, but now thinking more about it, if they're really going to be selling in Bestbuy it seems hard to believe that it will be the pro version with the Redmag reader and all. So will we be getting a consumer 4K explosion before December 21st (last day of fall)?

 

[Bob Gundu]

Did I miss something? A pro version of the RedPlayer? I don't recall there was such a thing. Perhaps you are confusing the Redray projector for which there will be 2 versions. In any case, none of these devices will have mag readers though, and the laser projectors are not going to be ready any time soon.

 

[Les Dittert]

Why would you want one with a red mag reader? You like expensive media ?
just wondering.

 

[Phil Holland]

REDRAY doesn't have a REDMAG reader in it. It never was designed to really have that.

It's not a device to playback .R3Ds, but it is a device that plays back .RED.

.RED is a new digital delivery format that suitable for theatrical 4K projection.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

There was a pro version of the REDRAY player announced way back when, but the vision and implementation of the REDRAY has changed quite a bit since then. For now it seems there is only one version as it does everything it's intended to do. It even has the ability to be upgraded for future interface standards -- like HDMI 2.0. Other than that, the REDRAY and CRIMSON laser projectors will have players built in with direct integration of the player to the laser engine. So no limitations on data throughput, bit depth, color spaces that would be incurred by any interface such as HDMI.

Alex's Magnolia center is perhaps a bit more knowledgeable than the ones near me, or at least they are pretending to be. The ones here have no idea what a REDRAY is or that they might be getting them. The guys at the one closest to me thought I was just making stuff up.

It will be interesting to see how REDRAY fares. It's 3X the price of the Sony 4K player, actually 4X considering the discounts on the Sony and recent price hike of the REDRAY before it released. Joe Consumer still operates under the illusion that Sony is the best at anything they do, so RED is going to have to show something very impressive to entice buyers. Joe Consumer isn't going to see the codec advantages to REDRAY or other more technical aspects. Sony's system is pretty simple -- 4K movie downloads for $30. We still don't know what the pricing will be for ODEMAX or other potential services that will be coming along. The nice thing about REDRAY is that it's an open system and will give owners a variety of options. Sony's player is technically inferior and only operates within their walled garden. A detail that many people may not realize until long after they have purchased it.

 

[Ryan Sims]

Did I miss something? A pro version of the RedPlayer? I don't recall there was such a thing. Perhaps you are confusing the Redray projector for which there will be 2 versions. In any case, none of these devices will have mag readers though, and the laser projectors are not going to be ready any time soon.

REDRAY doesn't have a REDMAG reader in it. It never was designed to really have that.

It's not a device to playback .R3Ds, but it is a device that plays back .RED.

.RED is a new digital delivery format that suitable for theatrical 4K projection.

Oh yes it did. Here is some info on the original design that did take REDmags. http://laamc.wordpress.com/2011/05/11/redray-pro/

 

[Elsie N]

I asked the Magnolia guy at Bestbuy a few days ago if they had any Redray players. He said that nobody had them yet and that they were coming in the fall. I didn't think to ask for clarification until after I had left, but now thinking more about it, if they're really going to be selling in Bestbuy it seems hard to believe that it will be the pro version with the Redmag reader and all. So will we be getting a consumer 4K explosion before December 21st (last day of fall)?

The first thing that crossed my mind when reading this is that RED has indeed decided to release a CONSUMER version of the Red Ray Player. Just a simple model equipped to hook up to 4k TVs and such and read .RED encoded material. Lower price to fit a consumer's budget.

Hope so, because that enlarges our audience as content providers.

 

[Phil Holland]

Oh yes it did.

Ah. I have seen one of those in the Red Theater at RSH. I stand corrected, but also, that is a two year old article.

 

[Alex Kiritz]

Did I miss something? A pro version of the RedPlayer? I don't recall there was such a thing. Perhaps you are confusing the Redray projector for which there will be 2 versions. In any case, none of these devices will have mag readers though, and the laser projectors are not going to be ready any time soon.

My mistake there is no redmag reader. However, I'm pretty sure the RedRay Player currently shipping is the pro version.

If you need evidence for a consumer version now being in the works, here's a earlier picture without the word professional on the front. You can see here in this thread that RedRay players were being assembled back in November with the old front plate.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The current shipping model is a labeled as a "Professional 4K Cinema Player". Although, I'm not expecting a "dumbed-down" or "consumer" version at this point. What would they take away?

 

[Alex Kiritz]

The current shipping model is a labeled as a "Professional 4K Cinema Player". Although, I'm not expecting a "dumbed-down" or "consumer" version at this point. What would they take away?

External antenna, multiple lights, 4-5 hdmi ports, 1 ethernet jack, esata port, gpi port, hard drive, metal case, grounded power input. People who want/need caching can use a cheap 128 GB SD card or a usb hard drive. Dual band wifi would also make sense since less consumers have an ethernet jack at their TV. It wouldn't make sense to release it before HDMI 2.0 is out though.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

At the risk of disagreeing with Jeff, I do expect a more affordable consumer targeted RedRay-ish device once HDMI 2.0 is readily available - IF - the marketplace for such a device catalyzes.

Cheers - #19

 

[Elsie N]

At the risk of disagreeing with Jeff, I do expect a more affordable consumer targeted RedRay-ish device once HDMI 2.0 is readily available - IF - the marketplace for such a device catalyzes.

Cheers - #19

Disagreeing with Jeff is normally a no-win situation. But the solution would be to agree with me and Alex, thus avoiding that trap. '-)

 

[mark haflich]

Red is showing at Cedia in Denver late September. That's the big consumer HT show for resellers and installers though many many consumers crash the show. so what will Red be showing along with Odemax who I expect will occupy a portion of the Red booth? A dumbed down Redray and I bet a consumer 4K projector lit by a laser lit white phosphor taking the place of a conventional bulb. From there a 3 chip LCOS liight engine. Oh yea, a Redray built into the projector.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

How RED approaches CEDIA could be an interesting "tell" in terms of where they see themselves potentially fitting into the delivery space. There is a quality obsessed segment of the home theater (HT) crowd that might really embrace RedRay and/or a Red projector. With a decent warrantee and assuming good reviews in the trades, the HT folks could build welcome RedRay buzz.

Cheers - #19

 

[mark haflich]

No way will the consumer market buy into a $1750 4K player without popular content being available Add that and high mbs and the high end of the market might buy in.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

The HT market is a unique segment of the consumer market and within it there are some folks who will fork over a couple of grand on a high end source device. How many RedRays get sold to HT aficionados after the first few hundred may indeed be highly dependent on the content portfolio and real world IP download experiences, but I foresee a lot of enthusiastic testers in the near term. What Apple does next could change all of this rather rapidly...

Cheers - #19

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

No way will the consumer market buy into a $1750 4K player without popular content being available Add that and high mbs and the high end of the market might buy in.

If the content is there, people will buy it. Onkyo, Marantz, Denon and others are selling high-end BluRay players that still cost more than a REDRAY player. Some of them double! As Blair says, there is a high-quality niche in the HT market. People will pay $3500 for a BluRay player because it has "the best" image processing and output quality as well as "the best" audio processing.

As for CEDIA, Denver is my home town and I'll be there to check it out.


At some point I do expect REDRAY to reach a broader market consumer-friendly price point. What I said a few posts back, questioning what RED could take out of the current player to make it more affordable, still stands. Yeah, there were examples given of various things and it's all superficial stuff that may lower the end consumer cost by maybe $60 at the most. The real cost in the player is the custom ASICs and high throughput of the internal components and pathways. RED could probably cut the cost of the player in half or less if they dumbed it down to 1080p only. They could cut the cost of the player if they built it out of off-the-shelf components, using an established off-the-shelf codec as Sony has done with their player. And their player is still $600.

Ultimately, what will drive down the cost of REDRAY is adoption by the market. When HDMI 2.0 does ship, I expect REDRAY to be updated to include it. Those of us with current units will have the option to upgrade. And there's a good bet that newer units will be cheaper. I really don't see RED putting out a cheapened up consumer version of this. Because if they were to put it in a thin steel and plastic shell, use an ungrounded power supply, eliminate the extra HDMI ports, eliminate the WiFi antenna, etc.. It won't make the player much less expensive, it would just make it cheap.

I still think REDRAY has a huge uphill battle ahead. It's a concept that most resembles ROKU, if it were on a massive regimen of growth hormone and steroids. Not only will ROKU be putting up a 4K offering within the next year, but there are plenty of other boxes coming out to contend with. Look at what the XBOX One can do. It's a $600 box and Microsoft still has to subsidize it with software sales and unless they ship 3 million XBOX One consoles, the product is a bust. REDRAY can't operate off a model like that. Not yet.

Original BluRay players were $999. And that's after Sony subsidized them with media sales and format licensing. They were originally going to launch at $1500, but Sony had to go for the throat in their campaign against HD-DVD. This had to cost huge money up front. It of course paid off in the end. By comparison, RED is still a very small player and isn't really in a position to make a move like that. At least not at this time, there has to be content available and ways to get people interested.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Corey_O]

Jeff,

Could this be a push by Red(ray) to get 4k into the homes faster pushing sony, msft, others to come out with 4k boxes sooner then might have w/o RR? Like some have said about Red Primes? Leading by pushing?

 

[Sergio Perez]

Well, after much thought, I ordered one. Key here is distribution and also the spliter capabilities of the player. It allows for us to use "current" less expensive technology to showcase 4K and its another tool that, in the bigger scheme of things, is relatively inexpensive.

Don't know when mine will arrive but am looking forward to it!