October 30th Announcement Feedback

[Darren Orange]

Hey Jim or Jarred,

Are you guys building a follow focus as well now? Or is that only conceptual?

Sorry if some one else has already asked this question.

Thanks!

 

[Stuart English]

Audio on Pro I/O.

Audio on Pro I/O.

The sound devices 552 has two aes output pairs (4 channels) http://www.sounddevices.com/products/552.htm

would be great if the pro io module supported 4 channels.

Understanding that mixers such as the 552 exist, the PRO I/O module is specified to support up to 4 channels of AES-EBU digital audio.

The number of recorded audio channels is 4, so enabling two or four AES-EBU inputs disables the corresponding analog audio input(s).

 

[Billy Gedney]

Understanding that mixers such as the 552 exist, the PRO I/O module is specified to support up to 4 channels of AES-EBU digital audio.

The number of recorded audio channels is 4, so enabling two or four AES-EBU inputs disables the corresponding analog audio input(s).

Any chance a firmware upgrade could change that or is the data flow budget too tight to allow that much audio?

 

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

I'd think uou'd have issues running fiber on a sets. It is too delicate. Ya, A limiter would be a rad software upgrade. What would really be rad, would be a VST, RTAS, TDM or AU plugin host for the audio, and allow people to bring their own limiters in. Logic pro has this really nice Adaptive Limiter I'd love to use in the real world.
Billy

Hi Billy,

various impossibilities here: VST and RTAS are requiring a very specific host, same with AU. TDM even requires Digidesign hardware. While Logic is a great AU host, Logic Pro plugins are not AU, they live within Logic.

Biggest hurdle: To prevent clipping, the compressor / limiters I am talking about would have to be inside the Epic´s analog preamps before the A/D conversion. Analog compressors. Different beasts.

Regarding fibercables on set, you are right. Very flimsy things. Especially the plugs.

All the best,

Jochen

 

[Billy Gedney]

Hi Billy,

various impossibilities here: VST and RTAS are requiring a very specific host, same with AU. TDM even requires Digidesign hardware. Logic Pro plugins are not AU, they live within Logic.

Biggest hurdle: To prevent clipping, the compressor / limiters I am talking about would have to be inside the Epic´s analog preamps. Analog compressors. Different beasts.

All the best,

Jochen

You're right- my comments were a made a bit too early in the morning. I didn't think about the workflow. All that to say this an addition:

True, but if the hardware is already designed and not going to be redesigned, a software limiter would be the next option (not claiming it's ideal, but it's better than nothing). And while the limitations you identify are very very likely, they are assertions. There is so much about the software/firmware side of the camera that is not known. I also know what I'm suggesting is a stretch. But as far as the TDM plug in, it is Avid- everything is always for sale, not to mention Digidesign could look at the situation, max 1 plugin on 4 channels of audio, and find a way.

Billy

 

[Michael Hastings]

Yes you do... but you need to register with us, pay the transfer fee and make sure the previous owner has not voided the warranty.

Jim

Jim: I'm a little confused so my apologies if I missed something (or I'm just dense.:biggrin

I need to clarify this, I thought:

"Anyone who buys a new RED ONE or a used RED ONE and transfers ownership after yesterday... will be able to trade it in for $17,500 credit on an EPIC-S35 Brain ONLY."Jim

I have a corporate customer with a couple later SN REDs that wants to move up to the Stage 1 if possible or stage 2 as early as possible to allow use of epic on an upcoming project and we would be working together to develop the underwater housings. I thought that if they buy my #206 after the 30th and transfer they would lose both the opportunity for epic-x and place in line. I will be buying an Epic eventually but this would help them and me in the short term if it would allow SN206 to keep its place in line for stage 1 (preferably) or stage two.

So what does this mean exactly?

If they purchase #206 and pay transfer fee are they eligible and in SNorder line for Stage 1. Price 28,000 Includes S1 accs.?
If they purchase #206 and pay transfer fee are they eligible and in SNorder line for Stage 2. Price $19,500 Includes S2 accs?


If they purchase #206 and pay transfer fee are they eligible and in SNorder line for Stage 3. Price $10,500 Includes S3 accs?
Or are they only eligible for stage 4 but have SN206s place in line and get trade in of 17500 off of 28000 for Epic S35 (Not X) with no accessories?
(Option 3 or 4 doesn't have any advantage for our situation.)

PS I'm not sure I want to sell at all. But they have more money to spend, and my ultimate goal is Epic 645 and I will be able to satisfy part of my Epic-X lust with them and with a local friend that is only a few SNs behind me. - just want to understand our options.

 

[Paul Leeming]

If the motion sensors detect 100gs does it automatically connect to the internet and end your warantee as well along with the red E-lens attached?

Hehe... reminds me of my flying days! Our RAAF PC-9/A's were fitted with G meters that would increment up by one each time you pulled X amount of G's. 6 was the student limit, but occasionally I'd come back to find that the 7G indicator had notched up one or two times during the flight for some mysterious reason....

Back on topic, I've looked at that gunner render some more and think I have the mount figured out - it looks like it's based on the idea that an electronic shutter doesn't need the focal plane as far forward as one with a mirror assembly in between the sensor and glass. Like the Micro 4/3 system, this means you can build the rear lens element closer to the sensor and thus get away with lighter optics for the same T stop.

So what we're looking at is the new Red Electronic Mount, which appears to have a short flange depth and seems to operate much like a photo camera mount (complete with little locking button I now notice). If you look really closely you can also see one of the four mount screw holes as well where it would connect to the brain.

No doubt Jarred has stress tested this mount by hanging off it with a pole like he did for the Red One PL mount, so I have no fears it won't be strong enough to hold some large lenses when needed (though with my above reasoning larger lenses won't be so necessary to begin with).

Nice work Red! Along with the revolutionary OLED scales on the lenses themselves, the RE series of lenses would now appear to be the premiere choice for future Red shooting unless you need the faster primes. So Red, how about those RE prime lenses then....?

Cheers,

Paul

 

[James Mathers]

Count Me In

Count Me In

Count me in...I’m ready to do again. As someone who shares his experiences about cinematography in articles for the Digital Cinema Society and the occasional trade publication, I have often been in a position to sing RED’s praises, which I believe are well deserved. In just a couple of years, the RED team has created a complete high quality motion picture capture system from the ground up, and populated the industry with several thousand cameras; (some would say more than we really need).
There have been a lot of slings and arrows aimed in RED’s direction, but I honestly think most of it is quite unfair. I’ve been criticized for speaking so much of the camera, but in hindsight I am proud to have seen it coming and realized the impact it would have on our industry, which has not been unsubtle. I’ve also had suggestions and the occasional bitch to which the company has been very responsive.
I’ve now used the RED One to shoot five features, a TV series, and a handful of commercials with no major complaints. These were productions that were counting on me to deliver a high quality and dependable capture device, and RED never let me down. Like any computer, even one with a lens attached, most problems were solved by simply powering down and rebooting, (and I once I had to reinstall the firmware build), but in hundreds of days of production, I’ve never had a camera down for more than 10 minutes.
With my first RED One being serial number 30, I’ve been getting lots of calls inquiring about my upgrade plans since the October 30th announcements. I’ve now given it much consideration, and whether you want to call it being an Early Adopter, Beta Tester, or Development Partner, I’m ready to sign on and put my money where my mouth is. I plan to be among the first to buy an Epic-X and grow with RED to the next level...if they’ll have me. And I might add, I will not be putting my RED One cameras out to pasture; but instead, will be looking for the Mysterium-X sensor upgrade. If the budget allows, I would still prefer to shoot film, but that is an option that is less and less frequently offered to me these days. RED has given me a tool to create beautiful cinema images and I know it’s only going to get better.

James Mathers
Cinematographer
Digital Cinema Society
Studio City, CA
www.DigitalCinemaSociety.org

 

[Karl H]

I need to clarify this, I thought:

"Anyone who buys a new RED ONE or a used RED ONE and transfers ownership after yesterday... will be able to trade it in for $17,500 credit on an EPIC-S35 Brain ONLY."Jim

I think, that if you sell your Red now, the new owner will get your place in line, but will not be eligible for the epic-x system, just the brain. It seems the rules suggest that only the people who own the camera right now can get stage 1,2, or 3. A sell on from this point only gives them your place in the queue. Which as you say, does not benefit you or the person you sold it to.

It's a bit of a grey area. I want to go for stage 2, and then sell my Red One with accessories to fund the upgrade. It would be nice to know at which point you're in the clear to sell the Red One. Is it after you've confirmed via e-mail, after you've paid? or after epic-x is delivered? Can you sell your Red One but without transfer of ownership before hand? These things are a little unclear.

If for instance you could confirm with Red that you were going to upgrade to Epic, put a deposit down, and your camera was executed and logged today; that would be great, you could potentially sell the Red One anytime after that, well before the Epic arrived. The new owners would have to be aware that they could not trade it in against an Epic though.


I know that this option was put in place primarily for those wanting to keep their R1, but also I see it as an opportunity for some users to sell complete systems and fund the upgrade - remember there is no trade in on the accessories, so selling them with the R1 makes sense to me. I don't see why Red would be offended by this strategy as it does not impact their return. I'm sure confirmation of these questions marks will come.

 

[Dave Blackham]

Understanding that mixers such as the 552 exist, the PRO I/O module is specified to support up to 4 channels of AES-EBU digital audio.

The number of recorded audio channels is 4, so enabling two or four AES-EBU inputs disables the corresponding analog audio input(s).

Any info about audio metadata ?

Mark Gilbert at www.gallery.co.uk is one of the leading experts on this so may be worth a check of his metacorder software. Its very good.

So for instance can Metacorder sync via G/bit interface and send audio to Epic or at least sync the Audio/Image metadata to allow easy syncing in post. This is possible via TC of course but there may be a smarter way of integration between both devices.

 

[Jannard]

Since there are only a few Tattoo cameras to be built (relative to interest), we will ONLY select users that:

1. Have a RED ONE (preferably a low serial number).

2. We have a great working history with.

3. Are likely to be exceptionally patient.

4. Known to us for giving good feedback.

5. Usually say nice things and don't push our buttons (good attitude).

Even then, I am now sure that many that completely qualify will not get a STAGE ONE program because there are just too many that have already shown interest and too few cameras to fulfill all the requests. Start thinking STAGE TWO...

Side note: because each Tattoo system is custom built with low quantity production (in case there are changes and upgrades) and we will lose money on each one. No big deal... we need the platform to insure all production cameras being "right" before shipping.

Jim

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Since there are only a few Tattoo cameras to be built (relative to interest), we will ONLY select users that:

1. Have a RED ONE (preferably a low serial number).

2. We have a great working history with.

3. Are likely to be exceptionally patient.

4. Known to us for giving good feedback.

5. Usually say nice things and don't push our buttons (good attitude).

Even then, I am now sure that many that completely qualify will not get a STAGE ONE program because there are just too many that have already shown interest and too few cameras to fulfill all the requests. Start thinking STAGE TWO...

Side note: because each Tattoo system is custom built with low quantity production (in case there are changes and upgrades) and we will lose money on each one. No big deal... we need the platform to insure all production cameras being "right" before shipping.

Jim

Thanks, that puts things into perspective. I hope to be picked

 

[Solomon Schechman]

Just curious but will the things learned during the Tattoo beta testing apply to the other cameras or will there be individual beta tests for each camera?

 

[George Butterfield]

Ok, I guess I'll just shoot a feature, since I only score on 3 and 5.
This is good, while I wait for STAGE TWO, I'll be concentrating on DoP'ing.
Make the Epic-X right! Take all the time you need, then a little extra.

edit: I score on 1 also, but high serial number ... so I'm rating myself as 2.5 (but in my mind I'm a 5)

 

[Gino Papineau]

Yes I am ready for a Tattoo, you can count on me ! :tongue_smilie:

 

[Sam Druckerman]

Thanks, that puts things into perspective. I hope to be picked

+ a BIG ONE .....


What a Great Ride we've had!!! I didn't fully realize the total impact my being apart of the RED revolution would have on my life.... It's been a fantastic adventure.

I want to say Thanks to everyone @ RED for all thats been, and all that's about to come.

The new system ROCKS hard....

RED RULES! Pass it on.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

+ a BIG ONE .....


What a Great Ride we've had!!! I didn't fully realize the total impact my being apart of the RED revolution would have on my life.... It's been a fantastic adventure.

I want to say Thanks to everyone @ RED for all thats been, and all that's about to come.

The new system ROCKS hard....

RED RULES! Pass it on.

Ditto! Red has very much changed my life. Here's to round 2!

 

[Sam Druckerman]

Ditto! Red has very much changed my life. Here's to round 2!

Cheers Shawn!

 

[Eki Halkka]

True, but if the hardware is already designed and not going to be redesigned, a software limiter would be the next option (not claiming it's ideal, but it's better than nothing).

Actually, it's not.

Why perform real time processing with settings that may turn out to be suboptimal, when you can do it in a controlled post environment to the exact same digital source?

In order to use VST or whatnot, the audio needs to be already digitized. There's no signal-to-noise ratio or safety benefits whatsoever on doing the processing in-camera.

 

[Eki Halkka]

I know that this option was put in place primarily for those wanting to keep their R1, but also I see it as an opportunity for some users to sell complete systems and fund the upgrade - remember there is no trade in on the accessories, so selling them with the R1 makes sense to me. I don't see why Red would be offended by this strategy as it does not impact their return. I'm sure confirmation of these questions marks will come.

Of course, if one (like myself for example) is in the market for a Red camera in the near future, and decides to spend his/her $10 000+ to buy someone's used R1 + accessories instead of i.e. Scarlet S35 + modules + accessories, it's a big financial loss for Red.

First Red gives a huge discount for keeping R1, then loses a Scarlet sale because that R1 is sold forward. I don't think they'd be very happy... or intended the deal to go this way.