October 30th Announcement Feedback

[Jarred Land]

This raises the question - will the DC adaptor come with the brain, or will the brain have a standard DC input on it? Hopefully we won't have to buy a $550 charger and a $150 cable like you seem to have to with the R1...

Dont blame us, blame Lemo $$.

And just to clear up that misconception, we sell a perfectly capable DC adapter for the RED ONE for $135...

 

[Stephen Gentle]

Dont blame us, blame Lemo $$.

And just to clear up that misconception, we sell a perfectly capable DC adapter for the RED ONE for $135...

Sorry, I didn't realise that product was there - I'd only seen the listing for the charger which makes it sound a little like the charger with the DC cable is the only way to do it.

$135 is far more manageable.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Just so I'm clear, this was Gibby's opinion on how lense construction would place, and therefore his own personal estimate as to lens weight, correct?

Steve, is there anything specific from Red that indicates this, or is it your personal opinion on what Red should do? (Which for the record I would welcome, but this is being taken as "news", thus I'd like to clarify).

Thanks.

-sc

Only RED Team can confirm things we speculate about. Yes, that was my opinion, and that's why I put an "IMO" at the beginning of the original sentence. That said, I've been around RED since long before there even was a RED company, and I've got a pretty good handle on the "mind of RED". I'm one of the very few guys invited to attend the Summit 2005 think tank meeting at Oakley headquarters on 12/14/05 to brainstorm camera technology concepts. Beyond that, as a longtime industry veteran I've also got a very good handle on the needs of the various styles in the industry, and what technology would be most appropriate to fill those needs. I don't make any guesses unless they've been analyzed thoroughly.

There are some other evidence points that shaped my opinion on the size and technology of the RE lenses:

1) Analyze the relative size of the mid focal length RE zoom in the Gunner render. Jim's 10-30 announcement gave the dimensions of the Epic X brain as 4" x 4" x 5.5". Look at the rendered RE zoom size in relation to the Epic X body. I'd estimate that the lens is around 7" long by around 3.5" wide. A 24-75 (?) zoom made using traditional cine lens technology would be much bigger than those dimensions, but 7" x 3.5" is pretty close to the dimensions of a 35mm stills zoom of similar focal length, like a Nkon 24-70 or Canon 24-70 - and both those lenses weigh around 2 pounds each. In comparison, look how huge and heavy the cine lens technology RED 18-85 zoom is - 11" long and weighs 10 pounds. Clearly the rendered RE zoom in the Gunner render is not traditional cine lens technology to reach those comparative dimensions at those focal lengths.

2) RED already makes a line of pure cine lenses (RPP, 18-85, Pro 300). They're big, heavy, and manual - just like the cine-style guys like them. RED's posted info for the RE lenses in the past year was for them to be used on the DSMC cameras for just that - stills and motion work. Both on 12/3/08 announcement and this new 10-30 announcement obvious 35mm stills technology features like auto focus and image stabilization were mentioned as being planned for the RE lenses. Those are simply not features offered on cine technology lenses - but they are routine features on 35mm stills lenses. That makes sense, because the RE lenses have always been positioned as being for a combination of stills and motion work - a perfect match for use on the DSMC cameras they are being designed for. Stills photographers simply aren't looking for huge, heavy, manual, cine-technology lenses to use in their work.

3) A large amount of stills photography is done via auto focus, and also eye focusing in manual modes. Hybrid/EFP motion camera work is also primarily eye focused. Those two industries almost never use manual measurements for focusing, or an AC to focus the camera. In both stills and hybrid/EFP the shooter focuses the camera themselves. The AF and touch screen focus tracking RED has announced have no pedigree in the cine industry, but AF and touch screen focus tracking do have a historical basis in the stills industry, as does AF in some portions of the non-hardlined EFP industry.


Add the points I mentioned in 1, 2, and 3 above together, and its pretty easy to draw the conclusion that RED's new electronic lenses will be based on 35mm stills technology for lightness and good optics - but also with some very critical improvements added in to enable good motion shooting too, as Jarred has posted earlier on this thread:

"you will always be limited to the speed of the motors in any given lens. For some people that use Canon and Nikon lenses they are ok with that tradeoff..

The RED Electronic FF lenses are designed with motion tracking and motion recording as a foundation however, so the performance of those lenses in both motor speed, lens noise, breathing, etc. will far exceed ( we believe ) other electronic lenses on the market.

Since the Camera brain controls Touch Focus Tracking and traditional autofocus all mounts that have active focus control can take advantage of the AF modes."


----------------------------

I would be seriously surprised if my assessment of the technology and intended uses of the new RE lenses was inaccurate. I have no "insider" knowledge from RED to confirm my opinions as "news", but I think all of the above info I've posted builds a strong case for my opinions. Plus, as I summarized, I've been around RED since long before there was even a RED company, and even a lot longer than all but a few of the RED Team members. I've been wrong before on a few opinions I've posted about RED products - but IMO the opinions above are very accurate.

 

[Simon Blackledge]

Why Tattoo ? who chose it ?

s

 

[Siuki Yip]

anybody want to develop more about that gear?

anybody want to develop more about that gear?

anybody want to develop more about that gear?

 

[Grant_Wood]

Still Beta testers

Still Beta testers

I haven't seen this asked anywhere yet, so...

The selected "Tattoo Artists" that are beta testing Epic are all low ser# Red owners. I think its safe to say that group is comprised of 100% motion shooters, some of whom probably shoot still photography as well, but not as their primary business (continue qualifying this statement here with whatever polite exceptions you choose so your own "shooter" skills aren't being slighted by this generalization).

The DSMC concept was announced a year ago, years after the low ser# people put their deposits in the mail and had been shooting their ROnes for fun and profit. At that time, I don't think there were many (if any) top Still frame shooters getting in line for a Red One. So, with the purpose of running a thorough and rigorous beta program for Epic to shake out issues in the hardware, software and workflow... I'm wondering if you have/are considering inviting any still-only shooters to participate, maybe not as full-on Tattoo Artists, but as still frame beta testers to represent the workflow and usage of your broader target audience?

 

[Grant_Wood]

Still frame format

Still frame format

In still frame shooting mode, will Epic save single images as R3d files?
Or will you adopt the DNG format for RAW stills?

I guess while we're on the subject, would red even consider raw+jpg shooting? How about variable size jpg?

 

[Karl H]

Question for the Red Team

Question for the Red Team

Great options. I think I'd go for option 2.

Unlike many I've not made money back on my Red, so I'd need to offset the cost of the Epic upgrade by selling all my accessories with the Red One while I still can (unfortunate, but I think this would be better value than the trade-in).

My question is, if I sell my Red One kit now or in the next few months, is there anything you'll need from me when I come to upgrade other than the serial number?

I obviously don't want to be in a position where I don't qualify for the Epic upgrade for some reason, especially with someone else having the camera and serial number.

Thanks.

 

[Jannard]

Great options. I think I'd go for option 2.

Unlike many I've not made money back on my Red, so I'd need to offset the cost of the Epic upgrade by selling all my accessories with the Red One while I still can (unfortunate, but I think this would be better value than the trade-in).

My question is, if I sell my Red One kit now or in the next few months, is there anything you'll need from me when I come to upgrade other than the serial number?

I obviously don't want to be in a position where I don't qualify for the Epic upgrade for some reason, especially with someone else having the camera and serial number.

Thanks.

Karl... this is a dangerous situation. You'll need the camera in your possession since the serial number can only be used by the current owner for STAGE consideration.

Jim

 

[Jeff Coatney]

Karl... this is a dangerous situation. You'll need the camera in your possession since the serial number can only be used by the current owner for STAGE consideration.

Jim

Does this mean that if you sold your Red, you're selling your serial number-and by extension, your place in line?

 

[James Press]

That's certainly my understanding. And for a bloody good reason! You either own a piece of history or you don't..

 

[Jannard]

Does this mean that if you sold your Red, you're selling your serial number-and by extension, your place in line?

Of course...

Jim

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

You'd have to find someone willing to buy your RED without official ownership transfer. And who knows what might happen in the time between the sale and the "trade in". As Jim pointed out, this is a dangerous situation. I think people wanting to follow that route ought to take all the possible implications into consideration, including the fact that "Anything can change".

 

[James Press]

No offense, but that's one of the oddest posts I've read...

 

[Jeff Coatney]

Of course...

Jim

I know you'd lose your place in line, but would the buyer of the used Red be able to take your place in line or would they go to the back of the line?

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

No offense, but that's one of the oddest posts I've read...

How is that?
Basically what I'm saying is that you can either sell your RED with official ownership transfer registered and paid for with RED, and thus lose your serial number and your place in line.
Or you could find some kind of grey area, like someone is already proposing in the sales section of this forum, where you're selling your camera without official transfer, in order to still be eligible for stage 2.
But that seems a dangerous option, as the trade-in options may still very well change, as they have just done on the 30th.
The safest bet is obviously keeping your Red One until the actual trade in. That's certainly what I'll be doing.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Dont blame us, blame Lemo $$.

And just to clear up that misconception, we sell a perfectly capable DC adapter for the RED ONE for $135...

The DC adapter is very nice and with a $39 inverter and any 12 volt battery you can set it up in the simple "block battery" configuration that is often used in "cine-style" packages.

 

[Jannard]

I know you'd lose your place in line, but would the buyer of the used Red be able to take your place in line or would they go to the back of the line?

The buyer needs register with us and to pay the transfer fee...

Jim

 

[Jeff Coatney]

My point is this: If I buy an early serial number Red, a pre-owned model, even if I've never owned one before, do I get that serial number's spot in line when it comes to upgrading?

Got it. Thanks, Jim.

 

[Jannard]

My point is this: If I buy an early serial number Red, a pre-owned model, even if I've never owned one before, do I get that serial number's spot in line when it comes to upgrading?

Yes you do... but you need to register with us, pay the transfer fee and make sure the previous owner has not voided the warranty.

Jim